fati 0 Posted June 16, 2003 meeri i told u but u r not gonna accept anything. coz it totally poured in ur mind. now just tell me. karbla main kiya hoa. imam hussain (a.s) ke lashay ke sath kiya kiya gaya. sir juda kar diya. 72 sathiyon ke sir juda thay. kiya nahi hoa lashay ke sath. hazrat qasim ka lasha pamal kiya gaya. uhad main hinda na hazrat hamza ke jigr ko chaba dala. magar is ka ya matlab nahi ke wo azeem aur pakiza hastiyan nahi theen. if u put the agressor and the agressed upon equal, then u r good for nothing. now i m not gonna explain any further coz no matter what happens u r not gonna accept it. and i dont wanna waste my words. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 17, 2003 hello..there? C ya.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
babarleo 0 Posted June 17, 2003 No fati...... you must be cool down your self... its not our personal.. openions..., Its all about islam... be please... teach some one.. other way, if they don't understand that way u wana teach them,... Nothing to say more.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 18, 2003 Welcome back (to myself :D ) sorry that i'm late...... my connection had been expired for a long time and now i'm using a new one. thats why i wasnt able to visit cy often............ anywayz, fati, dont b angry.... hey, i'm not rejecting anything..... i agree if it was really yazeed the murderer of Imam Hussain then he might have punishment for what he'd done or its up to Allah if he wants to forgive him...... otherwise, Imam Hussain and others were the gr8 gr8 ppl of Islam... yazeed cannot b his muqabla...... come on, dont go away.... i just said that i will accept ur references agar woh waqaee saheeh aur mustanad huay...... waiting for u to come back...... cannot continue this topic without YOU!!! plzzzzzzzzzz I'll b back soon for further ........... c ya! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 21, 2003 babar and meeri , i m not angry, i m nobody to b angry on u. but the thing is that u keep questioning the same thing. and i m really tired. start another topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 22, 2003 Salaam fati....! pussy cat, pussy cat, where have u been? :D thank God that u atleast reply :) look sis, there r 3 possibilities for a person after a discussion: 1) Accept other as he's right. 2) Reject others view if he/she is wrong and not to go away until his/her complete satisfaction. 3) Question further to find out if he/she is completely right. in 3 baaton k ilawa wohee hay k na khud satisfaction aur na he doosray kee. siraf keh daina he kaafee naheen k hum satisfied hain jab k naa aap k paas koi ma'qool jawab ho ya aap kee baat saheeh na ban rahee ho. bhala yeh to bataain k aap ko mairee konsee baat ghalat lagee? kya yeh baat ghalat thee k main nay kaha k Hazrat Imam Hussain RA 10th Muharram ko shaheed naheen huay? is k proof k lyay bhee main nay aap ko bataya tha k aap calculations kar k daikh lain aur phir aap ko ma'loom ho jaay ga. kya aap ko mairee yeh baat buree lagee k main nay kaha k bain karna Islam main jaaiz naheen aur us k lyay main nay Siha Sitta kee ahadeeth bhee bataee thee jab k aap un ahadeeth k muqablay main shuk-o-shuba say bharee huee kitaabon k hawalajaat bata rahee theen aur agar aap ko yaqeen naheen aata to aap unhee kitabon ko consult karain aur daikhain k un main aur kitnee aisee baatain hon gee jin par aap ka dil khud mutma'in naheen ho ga (agar zameer zinda ho to phir :) ) jahan tak maira khyal hay to main nay Ilyaseen aur Alyaseen ya Aal-e-Yaseen k baaray main bhee clear kardya tha k Banu asad kee lughat main is ko Alyaseen kaha jaata hay laikin yeh aik arabee lughat ka andaz hay jaisay Meekaal Meeka'eel k lyay aur Toor-e-seeneen toor-e-seena k lyay etc. aur yeh misalain aap ko Qur'an he say mil jaain gee. is lyay is main bhee koi buree ya ghalat lagnay walee baat naheen. raha us kee baat k main nay kaha k siraf Hazoor SAW he ko follow karna chahyay aur us k baad sahaba-e-karam ko jin main ahlebait bhee hain aur khulfa waghaira bhee. aur yeh bhee k siraf Hazrat Hussain k lyay he kyoon mourning kee jaatee hay jab k Hazoor SAW kee wafat par to khushyan manaee jaatee hain. ab aap bataain k is main kya baat ghalat hay. mujhay pata hay k aap ka yehee jawab ho ga k Hazrat Hussain bohot he aala hastee thay aur is lyay un k lyay roya jaata hay. main yehee kahoon ga k Islam aik taraqqee yaaftaa deen hay. aur Islam main mayyat k lyay har waqt ronay say bhee mana' kya hay kyoon k Bukhari kee hadeeth k mutabiq us mayyat ko us ka nuqsan pohonchta hay (agar mayyat nay apnay ghar walon ko mana na kya ho) haalaan k Hazrat Hussain RA Karbala k lyay nikalnay say pehlay apnay ghar walon ko naseehat kar gaay thay k main agar shaheed kardya gya to ziada gham na manana. ab aaj kal k Musalman to khud un kee baat he kee mukhalfat kartay hain aur kehtay hain k humain un say bara pyar hay. INSANE! phir bhee agar bohot he ziada ghum hay kisee baat ka aur naheen control kya jaa sakta to theek hay, royain. aur ronay main bhee koi harj naheen. khud hazoor SAW beebee Aamna kee qabar par jaa kar roay thay k Allah nay unhain mana' kya tha k un k lyay maghfirat kee dua naheen karsaktay kyoon k un ka faisla Allah k haath main hay. laikin hazoor SAW kabhee cheekhopukar kar k kabhee naheen roay k logon ko bhee dikhain aur sarak par aajain k sab mil kar ghum manaain. Islam main har cheez within limits hay. agar aap kehtee hain k yeh to insaan kee fitrat main hay ghum manana aur islam insaan kee fitrat k ain mutabiq hay. main bhee maanta hoon k islam insaan kee fitrat k ain mutabiq hay laikin zaroori naheen k har fitrat ko he accept kar baithay. is tarah to insaan kee fitrat main buraee karna bhee hay. to kya islam nay humaray lyay buraee jaaiz kardee? naheen! bulkay ussay roka....... umeed hay k aap mairee baat achee tarah samajh rahee hon gee aur naraz bhee naheen ho rahee hon gee. humain chahyay k hum saheeh deen ko talash karnay kee koshish karain bajaay is k k hum apnay aba-o-ajdad kee deen ko follow karain. surah a'araf main Allah nay bataya hay: "lest ye should say on the day of judgement: "Of this we were never mindful": Â Or lest ye should say:"Our father before us May have taken us to false gods, But we are (their) descendants After them : wilt thou then destroy us because of the deeds Of men who were futile?" [172-173] I think its enough for now. "Aqalmand k lyay ishara he kafee hay" :P Shani> where r u? u r just passing by and aint saying anythin......?! waiting for u too...... Allah Hafiz! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 23, 2003 Salamz.. wel..meeri i'm here..! how r u all ?! u summarized all ur posts in ur last post meeri...and thts effective..however let me say somethin'...first of all u dont know fati..she has been mostly in a shia environment..and the daleels or comments u r passing r totally the creations of non-Shia.. (n sum r anti-Shia) units..thtz why she has never been to such comments and thtswhy shez amazing on ur comments...however i have faced so many pplz...with so many religions..and with so many opinions..and so i know wat a man thinks wen he says sumthing..! inshort..u sed abt mourning..then lissen my bro..our mourning is not jus like bas bay maqsad rootay pitatay jao...bas matam kartay jao..not at all..!..themafhoom of our mourning is highly noble ..and might be u cant understand..itz to spread the msg of  Imam..look u r very far fromthese azadari and mourning...thtz why u r talking likethis kay yazzeed janati ho ga ya Imam Hussain a.s. 10th ko shaheed nahi hoya..agar yeh azadari na hoti to aaj 100% loog tumhari tarah hi soochtay aur aik waqt yeh ahsaas zoor pakar leta kay Imam Hussain a.s. ki jang personal thi and not for Allah or Islam...aur yeh bhi aqeeda ban jata kay yazeed janati hay usay bura bhala na kaho............. thus thru mourning we r supposed to spread the msgs of Islam..msg of God ..msg of Prophet,,msg of  Imams and thus the msg of Quran in the right way....and therefore there is alwayz a majlis arranged in which Zakir speeches on the above sed aim..n thus widens the pplz mind and spreads the msgs..and then we mourn....zahir hay matam theek masaib kay baad shru hota hay..aur agar tum kabhi dil say masaib sunoo then tum agar stone hearted bhi ho to tumhari eyes purnam ho jaingi.. newayz..i m not going so deep as i have got not so much time today.. aur jahan tak Imam Hussain a.s. ki shaf\datki baat hay then let me clear..sahi hay kay Imam Hussain a.s. 28 rajab ko niklay ..par tumhay kiyaho gaya hay kay tumnay apnay Ulma say nahi poocha yeh question aur agar poocha to bhi to i m surprised kay woh tumhay satisfy kiyoon nahi kar pay..bcuz tum abhi tak yahi samajhtay ho gay kay rajabmain niklay aur moharram main karbala pohanch gay...and u msut be amazed kay itnay sayy dinnon main kaisay itna safar kiya..so lissen itnay say dinnoon main nahi kiya..if u read His history...He passed this journey in a whi\ole yr..and reached there in the moharram of the next yr... bcuz He stayed after exit from Madina at a place for a lil bit long time.. so plz clearify ur view aur meeri ..why dont u give ur email id here so tht i can fwd u some mailz concerning ur questionz..! newayz have a nice day allah hafiz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 28, 2003 salaams 2 u too my bro! i dont know abt others (especially fati) how they r but i can guarantee that i'm absolutely fine Alhamdulillah! thanx for ur reply. this topic really needs ppl like u who just dont stop negotiations and r ready to seek the truth and to tell it too. fati>the way u pretended on my response is not the way a muslim should do. and abt ur sentence "wasting ur words" agar aap ko pata ho to Hazoor SAW har waqt tableegh kya kartay thay aur kuffar ko bataya kartay thay. hatta k Prophet Noah AS nay bhee 950 years tableegh kee thee. aur agar aap mujhay koi saheeh baat batatee hain aur main naheen maanta to is ka matlab yeh naheen k aap k words waste ho rahay hain. aap ko us ka ajar bilkul milay ga. aur mairee bhee kya ghaltee hay, main nay to aap ko waja bhee clear kardee pichlee post main k main kyoon woh reference reject karraha hoon jisay mairay pyaray bhai shani nay achee tarah samajh lya aur woh mairay saath is friendly discussion main bhee hissa laina chahtay hain aur mairay jo khyalat un k khyal say ghalat hain un ko bhee durust karnay kee koshish main hain.... Well Done shani! shani> i'm sorry i have to post ur posts reply a bit long so plz b patient :) actually, the comments i've been giving to all of u is not anti-Shia or non-Shia. it could b but this is what i conclude from different Ulamas and Quran-o-ahadeeth etc. there is no intention to attack any1. i'm just trying to discuss with u on different matters. secondly, i would say that one should not particularize him/herself to any particularism until he finds what other isms r about too... My friend, i know that ur mourning is not bay maqsad. everything one does is not ever bay maqsad. there's always something behind it. however, the mourning could b just for some wrong maqsad. look, i believe in Imam Hussain as the gr8 gr8 sahabee and ahlebait. y do u just keep blaming that i dont like him or i dont know his muqam or martaba. BTW, what was his msg? can u tell me? his msg was to spread Islam and to obey Prophet Muhammad SAW and Allah as well. His msg was not to leave everybody and follow him. agar yeh ehsas zoor pekar bhee laita k Hazrat Hussain RA siraf personally maaray gaay to phir issay Hazrat Hussain RA ko kya hota? ya issay humain kya pohonchay ga agar hum nay ro peet kar ehsas jagaay rakha? jo un k baaray main ulta seedha khyal rakhay ga to us ka ma'amla us k saath. hum to jaantay aur aik aur baat k yeh reason siraf kaafee naheen. agar ehsas bhee dilana ho to taqreer say dilaao. apnay aap par bilawaja zulm kar k dunya ko dikha kar na dilaao. main nay jab Maidaan-e-Karbala ka waqya dars main suna tha to mairay bhee aansoo aagaay thay k woh mazloom thay. aur yeh siraf taqreer say bhee ho sakta hay. main nay itna daikha k log apnay aap ko zakhmee kartay hain aur cheekhtay dhaartay hain laikin ussay to mujhay kabhee us baat ka pata naheen chala tha. khaas tor par rona..... i dont think its the right way. haan agar tab jaisay juhunnam ka byan suntay huay bhee ya kisee aisee baat ko suntay huay log ro partay hain to woh bhee theek hay aur us main koi harj naheen. Acha! aik baat bataain k bid'at aap kis ko kehtay hain? main to har us cheez ko bid'at kehta hoon jo deen main apnee taraf say add kee jaay. aur bid'at ka asal matlab bhee yehee hay. aap har juma k khutbay main bhee suntay hon gay k "wa kullo bid'atin zalaalah. wa kullo zalaalatin finnaar." (meaning: aur har bid'at gumrahee hay aur har gumrahee ka thikana aag main hay) ab mujhay aap siraf yeh bata dain k kya Hazoor SAW kee seerat say yeh saabit hay k woh mourning say deen phailaya kartay thay aur Islam ka paighaam dya kartay thay? kya sahaba-e-karaam ya ahlebait nay bhee kya Islam ko isy tarah phailaya? main maanta hoon k Nuh ka matlab hay bohot ziada ronay wala aur Prophet Nuh nay 950 yrs tableegh kee thee. laikin unhon nay ro ro kar naheen phailaya. woh siraf Allah k dar say roya kartay thay. aur woh tanhaee main he rotay thay... aaj kal log to Hazrat Hussain kee shahadat say Islam ka ghair muslims par aik bura image bana rahay hain. woh yehee kehtay hain k kya Islam main siraf gham he manana hay aur woh bhee is tarah?? is ronay peetnay say propagation naheen, depropagation ho rahee hay. dunya bhar main tasweerain chaptee hain k log kis tarah gham mana rahay hain. main nay aik tasweer main daikha tha k aik arab aurat apnay 2-3 maah k bachay ko lahuluhaan kar k gham aur ufsos ka izhar karrahee hay. aap maantay hon gay k suicider jannat kee khushboo tak naheen paay ga. ab yeh aik tarah ka suicide naheen? agar suicide type hay to isy tarah aik tarah say woh jannat kee khushboo bhee naheen paay ga. main kehta hoon k gham ho to us k lyay rona jaaiz hay. laikin bohot dafa yeh bhee keh chuka hoon k within limits. magar yeh jo tareeqa ban chuka hay gham mananay ka, yeh sarasar naa jaaiz aur kaafiraanaa andaaz hay. aap keh rahay hon gay k kaafirana kaisay? main yehee kahoon ga k yeh musalmaanon kaa tareeqa naheen aur jo muslim naheen woh kaafir hay. is lyay woh kaafiraana andaaz he hua. :) My dear bro, main nay kab kaha k Hazrat Hussain RA 28 rajab ko niklay. aik to mujhay yeh naheen samajh aatee k Shia Ulma nay itnee taareekh ko badal dya? really amazing....! agar aap waqaee mustanad aur saheeh history ko daikhain gay to aap ko maaloom ho ga k woh 8th Zilhijja ko niklay thay jis waqt Hujjaj Haj k lyay aarahay thay. ab zara sochyay, Hazrat Hussain RA Haj k moqa par wahan mojood hain aur hujjaj bhee aa rahay hain to koi zaroori kaam ho ga aur jaldee ho gee tabhee to Haj chore kar jaarahay hain. laikin agar unhon nay Madinah k gate par he muqaam karna tha to woh Haj kar k he chalay jaatay. doosree baat yeh k agar unhon nay jaldee main rukna bhee thaa un ko to koofya walay keh rahay thay k aap humaray paas jaldee say aajain aur hum aap ko apna khalifa maanain gay to woh phir aik saal tak kyoon madinah k darwaazay k paas rahain gay? teesree baat us waqya say miltee hay k jab Hazoor SAW mairaj kee raat bait-ul-muqdus say ho kar aay thay aur aakar logon ko bataya to Abu Jehel Hazrat Abu Bakar RA k paas gya aur kehnay laga k agar yahan say koi Jerusalem jaay to kitna arsa lagay ga? jawab mila 2 months phir poocha k agar jaldee safar karay to phir kitna time lagay ga? to arz kya 1 1/2 months phir abu jehel kehnay laga k agar bohot hee ziada jaldee pohonchnay kee koshish karay to abu bakar nay kaha k phir kam az kam 1 maheena he lag sakta hay to abu jehel kehnay laga k daikha! tum bhee yehee kehtay ho. Â tumhara jo saathee hay jisay tum nabee maantay ho woh kehta hay k woh aaj raat ko gya tha aur aaj he waapis he aagya to hazrat abu bakar nay tehqeeq karanay k baad jab confirm kar lyay k yeh lafz waqaee Hazoor SAW nay kahay hain to kaha k phir woh theek he kehtay hain... kehnay ka maqsad yeh tha k woh safar average 1.5 months main taih hota tha us zamanay main laikin baitul muqdus say bhee karbala door hay. who told u that my concepts r not clear. main jab yeh kehta hoon k Hazoor SAW kee hadeeth k mutabiq yazeed jannati hay to aap logon ko aag see lag jaatee hay aur mujhay us ka follower kehnay lag partay ho :) ab mujhay majbooran yehee kehna parta hay k ho sakta hay k woh jannati hay. sab say bara masla he yehee hay k aap kuch hadeethon ko maantay ho aur jo aap k aqeeda k khilaf hay usay zaeef keh daytay ho chahay woh Saheeh Bukhari kee he kyoon na ho aur un kitabon ko saheeh kehtay ho jin main bohot see baatain ghalat aur shuk main mubtala hain....... insaan ko humaisha open minded hona chahyay... aik taraf ka naheen har taraf ka sochna chahyay... fati, jab koi shakhs haq par hota hay to usay kisee cheez ka dar naheen hota aur woh daleelon say jawab daita hay laikin agar us kee daleel ghalat saabit ho aur jisay woh haq samajhta tha woh waqi'atan haq na ho to usay jo haq hay usay tasleem karna chahyay... More replies soon..... Allah Hafiz PS: my email is meeribai@hotmail.com but its mostly full and i dont have that much time to check all of the mails. but i'll try my best :;): Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 28, 2003 salam i m here! cant go :) well shani. u r not right.  :p  ya i have been in a shia enviornment but this doesnt mean that i dont know anything about others. meeri>  u r right ke hazrat Muhammad (SAW) na tableekh ka dars dia hay. is ke mutabiq mujhay discussion continue rekhni chahiya. and i  m not leaving. i m here and still discussing but u know , wasting my words means that discussing this topic further would b of no use becoz v r repeating the old things that v have already written. sahia sitta ki hadeeth per main zaroor yaqeen karon gi. magar jo hadeeth mujhay sahi nahi lagay ki main us ko nahi manon gi. jahan tak mourning kibaat hay to mourning sa murad dharain mar ka rona nahi. khud ko lahu lahan karna nahi. dharain mar ker rona ettiquetes main nahi hay. aur ya sahi nahi hay. main na mourning ko hamesha har post main sahi kaha hay. dharain mar ker ronay ko nahi. sahi is right ke agar ya mourning na ho to muslims imam hussain aur waqai karbla ki ahmiat ko bhool jain. waisay bhi primary islamiat ki books main bulqay secondary level per bhi karbla ke waqai ka koi zikr nahi milta. ya stategy hay logon na bhulwa daina ki. main open minded hon meeri bhai. har taraf ka sochna ke bad bhi i;ll stick to my point. is liya nahi ke ya mera point hay ya meri family isi per amal kar rahi hay to main bhi karon gi. bulqay meray khiyal main yahi sahi hay aur han. al yaseen ki jahan tak baat hay to yaseen hazrat muhammad (SAW) ka naam hay. hazrat ilyas ka nahi. now plzzzz start another discusssion. take care ALLAH HAFIZ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 28, 2003 thank u fati....... i've started another discussion in Which Imam topic and u can join us there... However, i will reply to ur last post in detail after shani's reply :) Allah Hafiz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 29, 2003 Salamz.. first of all..fati..i m alwayz rite then how can i be wrong this time.. :P newayz..u r not leaving this discussion at all ! till i m here..khair meeri thx for appreciation..! look..u r saying kay humain kiya agar log yeh samajh bhi lain kay Imam Hussain a.s. ki larai personal thi...wah..kiya selfisjhness hay..:P .. is tarah to Prophets aur Auliya bhi apnay apnay ghar beth jain aur tableegh na karain kay bhai  hum nay to aik bar declaration kar di kay Alah aik hay..ab humay kiya hum to Allah ko aik mantay hain na..! so itz important..! y do today ppl even in Pak. cursing bitterly the founders of Pak..jus bcuz the rite things abt them cud not reach to the pplz of Pak... i m not arguing abt it nemore..bcuz i think itz enuf for u..is it? did i ever support mar darh and zakhmi karna...??. i jus supported mourning in a true way..tumharay aansoon niklay karabala kay dars main yeh hi mourning kay barabar hay..n lissen humaray yahan debate hi hoti hay..us kay baad jin azadaroon ko matam karna ho to then they r allowed.kisi ko compell nahi kiya jata..aur matam is a sunnah of Bibi Zainab a.s. u shud concern shia books of Karbala's history n its influence..! abt date..to lissen i know wel abt the dates..n never say kay tumhay nahi pata bcuz i always type things after confirmation n satisfaction n my personal full consideration n observation..8th zilhajj ko Imam Hussain a.s. nay safar continue kiya tha na kay shru..shru 28th ko hi kiya tha..u must again consult ur books and ulmas..! mainay kabhi tumhay yazeed ka follower kaha ???..u have no rite to blame all of our aqaids..while i m clearing all points..n plz plz plz..from next time try to shorten ur comment as i have earlier told i got no time these dayz. newayz..tht was the timei got..more replies later.. Allah hafiz c ya.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Salaamz bro! Hey, what do u mean by this sentence "newayz..u r not leaving this discussion at all ! till i m here." what do u mean? r u gonna leave it someday? :) absolutely not!!! i wont let any1 leave this topic. once u entered can never leave :;): daikho! jahan tak mairee baat thee k humain issay kya k log Hazrat Hussain kee laraee personal samjhain, Â agar koi samajhta bhee hay to is say koi kaafir hota hay? Allah ko aik na maannay say to banda kaafir he ho jata hay. bahar haal, aap siraf itna he bataain k aap kis maanee main Islam k lyay laraee kehtay hain. main maanta hoon k un k saath ziaadtee kee gaee aur woh bayqasoor maaray gaay. laikin aap is main konsee aisee baat laarahay hain ya samajhtay hain k woh Islam kee laraee thee. kya woh kuffar say lar rahay thay? jahan tak maira khyal hay aur tareekh say bhee yehee pata chala hay k yazeed nay un ko maarnay ka hukam naheen dya tha laikin us k zaalim wazir nay un ko qatal kar daala. aur agar aap yehee kehtay hain k yazeed par baait na karna he Islam ko bachana tha to zara yeh to bataain k itnay sahaba nay yazeed k haath par baait kyoon lee? kya woh is baat ko achee tarah naheen samajhtay thay k yazeed ghalat hay? kya un ko yeh naheen pata tha k woh sharabee aur badkar shakhs hay ya pata honay k baawajood unhon nay us par baait kee aur us ko apna ameer mana? abhee aap is ka jawab dain to phir main aagay barhoon ga........ i tried my best to short it :) C ya ! PS: agar aap yehee kehtay hain k kisee jannati ko bura bhala kehnay say kuch hota hay to according to hadeeth, yazeed jannati hua. aur aap log us ko pakka jahannami kehtay ho to is ka matlab hay k humain mana karna chahyay aap ko. main nay aap ko to baat pohoncha dee ab aagay aap ke marzee. aur agar aap us ko bura bhala bhee kaho gay aur woh jannati he hua to is ka matlab yeh naheen k us ko nuqsan pohonchay ga. agar us nay jannat main jana ho ga to us ko koi naheen rok sakta....... fati> insaan ko apnee marzee ka deen naheen ikhtyar karna chahyay. jo baat pasand aee woh maan lee aur jo apnay maslak k khilaf hay ya soch k bar aqs hay us ka inkar kar lya. plz consult ur own Shia Ulmas k agar koi aisa karay to woh kon hay? jo shakhs namaz naheen parta aur usay yeh hadeeth na pasand ho k jis nay namaz ko tark kya goya us nay kufar kya ya yeh walee hadeeth k islam aur kufar k darmyan namaz hay....... aur agar woh baynamazee shakhs kahay k main in ahadeeth ko naheen maanta to kya us kee hujjat tamaam? yeh bhee daikhain k kya waja hay k log sab hadeethon ko maannay k baawajood bhee kis tarah deen par chal rahay hain? Enough Hints!!! Wassalaam! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Salamz.. meeri..how can u thinktht i m gonna leave u like this..n infact this discussion is such tht itz never gonna end i think..n thus thtz why i sed u r not leaving meanz ..wud never leave.. :) dekha...tumhari isi extremism ki waja say ab u r saying tht Imam Hussain a.s.'s larai was not for Islam..lissen  my bro..u dont need much explanation from me abt this bcuz ur own aalims wud explain this to u..jus consult them ..and go to the sites relating history of Imam Hussain's Karbala..aur agar yeh fight Islam kay liyay nahi hoti to Imam Hussain a.s. saari family koo kiyoon lay kar safar kartay hain...agar fight personal hoti to sirf imam Hussain a.s.'s force jaati..and secondly if u know..Imam Hussain a.s. ki force main itni strength thee imaan wise kay they were heavy on thousands of yazeeds..kiyon fati ?.. n u shud also know tht in his very frst attack  on yazedi force, Imam Hussain a.s. pushed the whole force back upto many miles alone...!!! .. n after a gr8 bravery..a voice from Falak..( sky) came.. " Itz enuf Hussain...now  itz time to cum and join us..we r waiting my grandson.." ..! n then Imam Hussain a.s. put back his sword in the nayaam...! so jus imagine..cudn't His force defeat yaeedies..but only to show the world n ppl like extremists who think it was prsonal fight..Imam Hussain a.s. clearly widened the fact on world tht tht was Islam'zfight n secondly..u say..yazeed was not kaafir..then watz the difference b/w Imam Hussain a.s. and yazeed??.. if u consider both muslims then how r u gonna justify tht ???.. itz bcuz yazeed was not muslim but manafiq..and munafiq ka koi religion nahi..itz from Quran..!!!!! ab u wud ask..kay woh munafiq kaisay hoa..!! for his i wud invite fati to debate on this..warna if u wud wish further explanation..i wud completely explain u....!.. aur jahan tak sahaba ka taluq hay..then lissen..u know abt taqiyya ???.. f not then is kay baray main bhi i wud refer fati..warna i wud explain it to u again..!!! newayz..thx for short comments :) Allah hafiz c ya  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 30, 2003 wassalaamz shani! lol..... i was kiddin! coz u said to fati that she cannot leave until u r here and i said that what do u mean by this? can she leave when u r not here and is there any possibility for u to leave? :) anywayz, back to my point :;): plz read all coz this time, i couldnt write short comments. whenever i write less, then there appears so many subdiscussions and the other points r left. aur jab main lambay jawab naheen post karta to topic thanda para rehta hay:) plz b patient and i have so many things to write now... bhai mairay, mairee kya extremism hay? konsee baat aap ko extreme par lagee? maira maqsad to siraf discuss karna hay aur main nay to sawal he kya tha. haalaan k ammee say jab poocha to woh kehtee hain k un k khyal say to Islam he kee fight thee but she was not sure abt it. laikin mairee soch k mutabiq to Islam kee fight to naheen thee. un k saath ghaddari kee gaee thee aur ziadtyan hueen aur bohot zulm bhee sehna para. laikin issay to mujhay koi aisee baat nazar naheen aee k main keh sakoon k woh siraf Islam k lyay lar rahay thay aur agar woh na lartay to Islam ko bohot nuqsan pohonchna tha. daikha jaay to is waqya say to Islam ko ulta nuqsan he pohoncha jitna is ko uchala gya. logon k darmyan nafratain paida ho gaeen aur tafreeq shuroo ho gaee. tafreeq to pehlay bhee huee thee laikin is k baad aur ziada honay lagee. logon nay aik dosray ko is par qatal kya. ab aap mujhay samjhain k aap ko kis nazar say yeh Islam kee fight lagee. mairay pyaray dost aur bhai, aap nay mujhay khud he apnee baat ka jawab daydya...... agar yeh fight Islam kay liyay nahi hoti to Imam Hussain a.s. saari family koo kiyoon lay kar safar kartay hain...agar fight personal hoti to sirf imam Hussain a.s.'s force jaati.. ab agar aap ghor karain to aapnay yeh ulat bata dya. agar Hazrat Hussain RA kee yeh fight Islam kee fight hotee to woh Mujahideen ko lay kar jaatay bajaay is k k woh apnee family ko lay kar jaatay. personal maamlon main to family he involve ho saktee hay :) and dear......... what do u mean by kiyon fati ? kya fati wahan mojood thee? :P lol..... i couldnt tell u how much i enjoy ur comical and imaginary stories.:)theek hay, main maanta hoon k ho sakta hay k Hazrat Hussain RA ko Allah kee taraf say taaqat mil gaee ho laikin woh jo falak wala qissa to saaf ghara hua lag raha hay. woh kaisay? aain main aap ko thora sa hint dayta hoon aur zara is par sochyay. agar Hazrat Hussain RA kee yeh fight Islam k lyay hotee to woh apnee talwar kyoon nayyam main rakhtay? aur yeh to khudkushee huee jo k Islam main bilkul Haraam hay. Jihad main mujahid tab tak larna naheen rukta jab tak k woh shaheed na ho jaay. doosree baat, yeh awaz sunee kis nay? kya un foj nay bataya jo un kee mukhalfat main lar rahay thay? un k saathee to sab shaheed kardyay gaay thay. ya aik aur falakee awaz musalmanon main bhee aee thee k jo wahan mojood na thay? aur agar aee bhee thee to kya woh waqaee Hazoor SAW kee awaz thee? kya Hazoor SAW un ko larnay say roktay haalaan k Quran main hay k jis nay peet dikhaee to woh Islam say Kharij ho jata hay. sura anfal main bhee kitnee jaga Allah ta'aala nay farmaya k musalmaanon! peet na phairna! aur agar awaz aee bhee thee to issay to yehee lagta hay k woh Satan ho ga jo un ko harana chahta ho ga. jangon main bhee to shaitan logon ko warghalaya karta hay/tha. aur woh kaisay Hazoor SAW kee awaz ho saktee hay jab k jo shakhs aalim-e-barzakh main chala jaay to waapis naheen aasakta aur jab woh waapis naheen aasakta to us kee itnee door tak kaisay awaz jaa saktee hay? bahar haal, agar aap sang-dil banay rahain gay to abhee bhee aap ko na samajh aasakay. haan! agar aap mairee soch ko ghalat saabit karsaktay hain to main maannay ko tayyar hoon.... deal?? bahar haal, agar woh waqiatan Islam kee fight thee to unhon nay apnay aap ko kyoon shaheed karwaya? na'oozubillah dikhaway k lyay? qyamat k din teen tarah k log jahannam main daalay jaain gay jo aalim hon gay shaheed hon gay aur sadqa khairat karnay walay hon gay kyoon k un ka gharz dunya ko dikhana tha. umeed hay aap mairee baat samajh rahay hon gay... aik baat aur bataain k aap ka un sahabee k baray main kya khyal hay jo badar kee jang main shamil huay thay laikin fatah mecca k moqa par ghaddaree kartay huay pakray gaay thay jinhon nay aik aurat k haath khat k zareeay kuffar-e-mecca ko aagah karnay kee koshish kee thee k musalman tum par hamla karnay aarahay hain? i'll b waiting for a reply to this question!!! bhai is main kya mushkil hay k agar yazeed  bhee muslim hua aur Hazrat Hussain bhee. kya muslim bannay main koi limit thee k aik he ban sakta hay?:) bahar haal aap nay mairee pichlee post ka poora jawab he naheen dya. ho sakta hay k pooree na parh sakay hon. ab parh lain aur second paragraph ka brief jawab dain... plzzz...... main aap donon say sunna chahta hoon. shani, aap bhee explain karain aur fati say bhee alag sun lain gay. koi masla naheen k agar aap mujhay tafseely jawab dain gay. main to baree khushee khushee he parta hoon. jitna lamba likhain gay, koi masla naheen mairay lyay. feel free! main bhee to likhta hoon. hehehe! BTW, what is abt taqya? the one which i take it with me in the night??? din get it! and i'll say once more that u both can reply. never mind... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 30, 2003 Continuity to ur previous post asal main yeh jo zakireen hain woh Islam kee baatain waghaira kam he kartay hain aur naee naee stories gharh k logon ko rolanay k lyay batatay rehtay hain. har saal ya to wohee baat ko repeat kartay hain ya naee cheezain add kar k logon ko aur rulatay hain. Islam main kya siraf rona dhona he hay? aur zara aap apnay zakireen say to poochyay k unhon nay deen ko is tarah kitna faaida pohonchaya? kitna Islam phaila aur kitnay log rah-e-raast par aagay. deen k ehkamaat to bohot he kam byan hotay hain laikin qissay kahanyan ghar ghar kar ziada sunaay jaatay hain. bhala woh yeh to bataain k jo shia books main mazloomyat kee aur naee naee stories kahan say mileen? aur siraf Shia books main he kyoon likha hay k Hazrat Hussain RA nay aik saal tak safar kya tha aur un ko yeh kis tarah pata chala? agar aap maatam waghaira ko naheen maantay to phir main aap k saath hoon. kyoon k rona dhona say kuch naheen hota. maar peet say he gunah milta hay. bulkay insaan kaafir ho jata hay. bahar haal, aap to keh rahay hain k aap maarh daarh ko support naheen karrahay laikin aap is amal ko saheeh qaraar day rahay hain k jab zakir dars daylayta hay to log maatam kartay hain. what does this mean??? it means k aap saheeh keh bhee rahay hain aur naheen bhee keh rahay. bahar haal, fiqa ka yeh asool hay k jis baat par logon kee mukhalfat ho aur kuch saheeh aur kuch ghalat kahain aur us ka ahadeeth ya hadeeth say takrao ho to us ko daleel bana layna theek naheen. daleel us baat kee laynee chahyay k jis par koi i'taraz na kar sakay. aap yeh daleel bana rahay hain k Hazrat beebee zainab nay matam kya tha aur bohot say log kehtay hain k yeh baat ghalat hay aur agar saheeh bhee ho to ihkamat say pehlay kee baat ho gee. laikin ab doosree taraf Bukhari kee woh ahadeeth jin main Hazoor SAW nay maatam karnay walon ko kaha hay k woh hum main say naheen. ab aap kis baat ko pakrain gay? zaahir he baat hay jo zakir sahab nay kahee wohee saheeh hay :) itnay achay hain woh kaisay jhoot bol saktay hain? un ka batanay ka andaz hee kitna pur asar hay k har dafa log phoot phoot kar rotay hain aur phir (hadeeth kee mukhalfat main) maatam bhee kartay hain :D zara aap mujhay detail say bataain gay k woh safar ka kya qissa tha? kahan say shuroo hua tha aur kahan say continue aur kitna arsa laga tha aur kyoon? will b waiting....... till then, Allah Hafiz! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted July 1, 2003 Salamz .. wel..meeri my bro..first of all i wud  advise u ( or watever u thinkit is ) tht plz dont taunt bitterly on the faith we believe in..n dont try to call us jahanammi in hidden words..bcuz itz  friendly discussion n we r not proving each other jahanammi..warna kehnay ko i have a lot..but unfortunately like u i haven't get much time..i m so so so buzy..u can ask ne of my friend ne where..! newayz... i m still waiting for fati's reply..warna i have answers for all of ur questionz but wahi due to very short time i m unable to describe at the time..however after fati..inshallah wen  i wud get time ..i wud explain n satisfy u... till then..waitin' for her comment.. Allah hafiz c ya.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted July 1, 2003 salaamz my dear bro shani! i'm really really sorry k agar aap ko mairee koi baat buree lagee. my brother and sister, this sure is a friendly discussion. mairay doston, aap ko mairee kis baat say laga k main nay aap ko jahannami kaha? astaghfirullah! kabhee naheen ho sakta. main kisee kaafir ko jahannami naheen keh sakta kyoon k hum thoree jaantay hain k us ka akheer kya ho. bahar haal, i'm sorry shani, from ur last post, u seem to b really upset with me. i'm sorry for any inconvenience..... yes, u r right that i have a lot of time coz my summer vacations just started and my exams had been over for a long time so i'm mostly free. mujhay maaloom hay k ho sakta hay k main ghalat ho'oon. bahar haal, i want to keep this discussion on and on kyoon k mujhay waqyatan aap k saath discussion karnay main acha lagta hay warna baqee ya to mujhay discuss he naheen karnay daytay ya mujhay achay tareeqa say treat naheen kartay :( anywayz, thanx to both of u and i owe a lot to u. and believe me, u both r included in my friends' list and i cannot remove u from it..... ok! g2g bye Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted July 8, 2003 Hello every1! where's every1? I cannot find any1? Hope this is read by some1. plz reply to this one... :) Wassalaam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted July 9, 2003 Salamz. Meeri my bro..dont be anxious..i wud cum here after sum time..i wud msg here myself..so keep waiting :) wud be back very soon.. Allah Hafiz c ya.. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted July 14, 2003 I'll b waiting for ur free time :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimePass 0 Posted July 14, 2003 yo I read almost all of this..It was very interesting..I know moharram Sog is always being debated but if someone is trying to change what is belived..please state solid evidence (with reference please which can be easily checked)...what u belive is not always the fact. Its being asked that y only Imama hussain sog is being given so much attention.. I think you should ask this question urself..isnt this amazing in itself ???after such a long time its still alive as it happend yesterday... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted July 15, 2003 TimePass> nice to see u. looks like we have more guests :) timepass, i think u havent read all the posts :) BTW, r u also Shia? coz it seems to b. and it will b ur pleasure to have a discussion with u too ;) but i got to go now! Bye! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimePass 0 Posted July 15, 2003 Hi Meeri! Thanks for ur welcome. Well I cannot say if I am Shia or Sunni as in my family there have been mix marriages and I get to see both sides. I think I agree certain point of both sides and am against some stuff of both sides as I nevr felt a pressure to get stick to one side from my parents..life has been great and got a chance to put things is prespective. I am not sure if I will be able to discuss a lot but I would like to see proper citations of different claims just so that I can check them. It has to be partial source to be ethentic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted July 16, 2003 salamz.. nice to see the new entry.. :) well meeri..i wud be back in this topic after 27th of july..till then...u both can correspond :) Allah hafiz n tc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
