Is Shia Kaafir?

[qiyam-ul-hidaya 0]

salams!to all my brothers and sisters hope all of u are in best of eman.first of all my introduction is concerned.i have been long time visitor and reader of this site.but i have registered for first time here due to this topic infact it pains me a lot when i read misconceptions about shia islam in eyes of common people.i am a pakistani.nick is arabic meaning (struggle for guidance).mujhe urdu be buht ache ate hn per typing ma masala hn i am not used to it,hope my sisters ibadat,areba,emaan and bro.alexander excuse me for this fact that i would like to continue in english.app beshak jawab urdu ma dena.i am here to defend shiasm and i would take shia stand to clear your misconceptions one by one and show that how we shias are rightful follwers of islamplease we will discuss all these things one by one.then my dear bros. and sis plz note that i dont have much much time with me.to agar jawab dene ma kuch der ho gye to plz 4give me.cute_ooky,my dear sis i dont know wether u are shia or not but nodoubt u were disappointed to see these remarks on shia faith by our muslims bros. and sisters i am here to help u my dear sis,i will answer these misconceptions and also u gain much knowledge about shia islam.at the same time i promise i will behave in best of ways and will not try to injure the beliefs of sunnies.if anyone feels offended by my veiws.make me aware and i will end the discussion.so dear sis cute_ooky mere liye dua kerna.MAY ALLAH GUIDE US ALL TO RITE PATH FOR THE SAKE OF MUHAMMED(SAW) AAL-E-MUHAMMED(AS).

[rukh 25]

welcome in cy ..: flower :

ofcource every one have right to discuss thier views freely !

we dont spread misconception about any religion but its duty of

every muslim Ammer bil MAroof Wa Nahi Un il Munker in The light of

Quran-o -hadees..& asar-e-Sahaba ...

so i kindly request to u .as a MOD of this section .. watever u want to

write about it u must show refrence in the Quran . Mustanad

Ahadees . & aqawal-e- Sahaba .. in this way we can judge easily &

confidently diffrence btw Haq & batil !

if we want to find right path by heart & soul InshAllah its our belive

ALLah show us !

Waiting for ur reply ..& once again welcome here !

[ariba 0]

Welcome Qiyam ul Hidaya.

Waise to yahan per New memebr introduction main sab apne apko introduce karvate hain.lakin chonk app ne sirf iss topic k liye CY ko join kiya aur yahin per apna intro. doya to humein b apko yahin Welcome karna par raha hai.

Hope to see u Around.

Jahan tak time ka concern hai to woh fazool to kisi k pass b nahin hai.main b 15 of this month see bohut ziadah masroof hoon gi.lakin phir b agar koe reasonable discussion shuru hoe to inshaAllah zaroor participate karon gi.

May Allah help us the right way.

[Emira 0]

Welcome Qiyam ul Hidaya.

Hum ap ki posts zaror dekhna chahte hain lekin aik request hai k Koi bhi be-meni baat aik doosre k religion k barey mat kijye ga jo bhi kehna hoga as Rukh said Quraan-O-Ahadees ki roshni mein likhye ga..

Jaha tak is sawal ka mamla hai k Is shia kafir to first of all i want to say k hum un ko kafir nahi keh sakte hai.....baki tafseelat main Inshallah later post karo gi.

[Ibadat 2]

WELCOME QIYAM ul Hidaya !

[qiyam-ul-hidaya 0]

salams to all for a warm reception.yes we all would like to adhere to the principles suggested by sister ariba.as a shia, according to teaching to holy nabi(saw) and ahlul-bayt(as) i judge everything according to quran,sunnah,ijamah of scholars and last is akl(rationality) and schoars of imamia sect do ijtehad also(on the basis of rationality)lets start our discussion we will discuss one thing at one time.first of all lets start with discussion of islamic personalities.lets discuss first imam mehdi(as)?do u all agree with me or we will start with personality u people like.lastly i apologize for late response.reasons i have told b4 :hi:

[Ibadat 2]

i think its better to start from Shiya's AKADID ??

what ab KALMA ?

[ariba 0]

salams to all for a warm reception.yes we all would like to adhere to the principles suggested by sister ariba.as a shia, according to teaching to holy nabi(saw) and ahlul-bayt(as) i judge everything according to quran,sunnah,ijamah of scholars and last is akl(rationality) and schoars of imamia sect do ijtehad also(on the basis of rationality)

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Well I want to say something about Akl or rationality.Akal agar wo baat kare gi jo shairyat ka mazaj ka mawafiq hoo gi to woh baat mani jaye gi.Agar har shakh apni apni aqal islam main thonsna shuru kar day to bohut garber hoo jay gi.khair yeh baat baad main b samne ajay gi.

Baqi app yahan mehmaan hain to jo app shuru karna chahin kar lein.agar personalities ki hi bat hai to personalities to bohut sari discuss hona chaye.Like Namoos-e-Sahaba(Rizwan Allah alehim ajmaieen) per b bat hona chahye.lakin if u want to discuss Imam Mehdi(A.S) first then no objection from my side.

So u would like to post ur beliefs or i should post mine n ur both??

N wat abt Ibadat's suggestion??

[qiyam-ul-hidaya 0]

salams!

Akal agar wo baat kare gi jo shairyat ka mazaj ka mawafiq hoo gi to woh baat mani jaye gi.

thats what i was insisting about .because in fiqah jafferia, akl has a big role qiyas has a limited scope in shia veiws. imam jaffer sadiq(as) ne mehass talqeed se manah kiya balke ijtehad ka hukm diya.ijtehad and akl should have great interconnection.because scholars wether it be shias or sunnies are not rite in 100 percent of matters.they have pitfalls.so it is not advisable to follow them blindly.lets begin the discussion.1)kalima.according to ibadat suggestion 2)namoos-e-sahaba 3)imam mehdi(as) :) i will later on start off with kalima discussion most hopefully today

[ariba 0]

salams! thats what i was insisting  about .because in fiqah jafferia, akl has a big role qiyas has a limited scope in shia veiws. imam jaffer sadiq(as) ne mehass talqeed se manah kiya balke ijtehad ka hukm diya.ijtehad and akl should have great interconnection.because scholars wether it be shias or sunnies are not rite in 100 percent of matters.they have pitfalls.so it is not advisable to follow them blindly

159603[/snapback]

I dont agree............

Humein to apne ulama per poora aitemad hai.Haan app k baray main main kuch nahin keh sakti.aur as i said har koe apni apni aqal islam main shamil nahin kar sakta.Aqal Quaarn ka samne khamosh rahay, mustand Hadith ajay to apna sar jhuka day,yeh aqal hai.agar koe apni hut dharmi per qaem rahay to woh jahil hai.

Baaqi yeh to thori off topic discussion hai.App ki post about kalima ka intezar rahay ga.(Smiles)

[rukh 25]

dekhain miss /mr jub main yeh kaha k quran hadees or sahaba kay refrence say bat kerin to is k peechay koi wajha thee

Quran bhi ik hay or nabi bhi ik hain or Sahaba bhi wohee hain jinho nai nabi ko dekha is main kisi qisam kay ikhtilaf ki gunjaish nahi nikaltee

in 3 cheezon main say ager koi inkar keray to us ka ghalat hona to khud hee saaf zahir ho jayee ga ..

baqe rahee AKAL .. to Akal her banday ki mautaber nahi hote janab

jo quran sunnat hadees sahaba kay fatawa or deeni aloom per muqamal qudrat rakhta ho us ki AKal ko app DAleel bana sakteen hain

ab main or app apni akal lay ayee to phir to na appmere samjhain gee na main app ki or bay hasil behus k ilawa kuch hasil na ho ga

baqee reh gaye bat Qayas or Ijmma ki

Sahaba kay bad baree atee hay TAbeen or taba tabeen ki

ab yahan hamray scholers lika IMAM Abu hanifa . Imam bukharee etc hain jin ki taqleed hum kertay hain pooray aytmad k sath

or app ki batoon say saaf zahir hay app ka in per woh aytmad nahi hay jitna Apni Akal per hay to yahan bhi sirf Ikhtilaf hee paida ho ga..

or maini Arz kia k BAT Cheet THOOS (solid) Dalail per ho to kam waqt main bohat asanee or yaqeene tor per NAteeja samnay aye ga

is ley munaisb hay app jo bat kerain un ko in 3 cheezon per rakh ker kerain ..basoort-e-deegar main nahi samjhtee is mubahisay ka koi hasil ayee ga

[rukh 25]

imam jaffer sadiq(as) ne mehass talqeed se manah kiya balke ijtehad ka hukm diya

app ki yeh bat kuch samjh main nahi ayee ..app ko maloom hay TAQleed kia hotehay ? or kis ki hote hay ?

IMAM us insan ko kehtay hain jis ki taqleed ki jayee app ik teraf imam jaffer koo imam kehtee hain or dosre teraf kehte hain k unhon nay taqleed say mana kia to phir woh IMAM kis cheez main hoyee ?

quran main to IMAM to us ko kaha gya hay jis ki taqleed ki jayee

Mafhome ayat :

..Allah nay bane israiyl ko kaha k tum main say naik logoon ko hum nay IMAM banya tkay woh tumhain seedhay rastay ki teraf buulain ...

app ki bat to Quran kay khilaf bhi hay or app khud bhi apni bat nafi ker rahee hain ..?

or ijtyhad main FIQAh main Mujtahid ki tareef yeh k

woh quran k 500 ahkamat kay ayat us ko yad hoon isee terah ahdees or sahaba kay zamnay main honay walay tmam qaza o qadar say waqif ho or arabi lughat main mahrat rakhta ho to us ka ijtyhad MUATBER HAY

or inhee MUJHTAHDEEN ki taqleed ki jate hay k aisa ILM her ik ko nahi milta na her koi is mertaba tuk pohnchta hay !

Edited November 13, 2005 by rukh

[qiyam-ul-hidaya 0]

:) well sisters mere be dua hn kh me kalima ki discussion tak paunch jao sahee :P baat suruh hui aur objections started.pehle rukh ki post ka answer kerta hn.u have completely misunderstood me on akl and talqeed issue.

quran main to IMAM to us ko kaha gya hay jis ki taqleed ki jayee

The word imam recurs 7 times in the Qur’an, while its plural form, a’immah, appears 5 times. In 3 of these cases it refers explicitly to a book:

And before it was the Book of Musa, a guide and a mercy. (Hud : 17)

And before it was the Book of Musa, a guide and a mercy. (al-Ahqaf : 12)

Verily, we will restore the dead to life, and we write that which they sent forth, and that which they left behind; and of everything we have taken account in a Clear Book. (Yasin : 12)

In another 2 cases it refers to the champions of kufr:

Fight the leaders of kufr. (at-Tawbah : 12)

And We made them leaders who call towards the Fire. (al-Qasas

One reference is to a clearly discernible road:

And verily, the two (cities) lie next to a clear road. (alHijr : 79)

One reference is to a clearly discernible road:

And verily, the two (cities) lie next to a clear road. (alHijr : 79)

yeh han woh verse jiis ka hawala app ne diya rukh Indeed, We gave Musa the Book, so be not in doubt about meeting him; and We made it a (source of) guidance for the Children of Isra’il. And We made from amongst them leaders who guided by Our command, when they persevered. And they had full certainty in Our signs. (as-Sajdah : 23-24)

In the remaining six places where the word is used, it is used in terms of its literal meaning, i.e. leadership. In Surah al-Ambiya’ it is stated:

We said: O fire, be cool and (a means of ) safety unto Ibrahim. And they planned against him; but We made them the greater losers. And We delivered him and Lut to the land which We blessed for the nations. And We gave him Ishaq, and Ya‘qub as an additional gift; and all of them We made righteous men. And We made them leaders who guide by Our command; and We revealed to them the doing of good, the establishment of prayer and the giving of alms. And they were men who served Us. (al-Ambiya’ : 69-73)

And We wished to be gracious to those who were oppressed in the land, and to make them leaders, and to make them heirs. (al-Qasas : 5)

(They are) those who say: Our Lord, grant us the coolness of (our) eyes in our wives and children, and make us leaders of the pious. (al-Furqan : 74)

The day when we will call all people by their leaders. (al-Isra’ : 71)

to rukh app khud dekh le quran ne kuffar ke leaders ko be imam kaha hn?kya app un ki talqeed kere ge??????? <_< make sense

imam jaffer koo imam kehtee hain or dosre teraf kehte hain k unhon nay taqleed say mana kia to phir woh IMAM kis cheez main hoyee ?ab yahan hamray scholers lika IMAM Abu hanifa . Imam bukharee etc hain jin ki taqleed hum kertay hain pooray aytmad k sath

jee han imam jaffer sadiq(as) shia ke nasdeek ahlul bayt ke 12 imams ma se 6th imam th.baki 2 imam hanifa aur bukhari be ah humare sath mujud nahi.aj humare pass inn logo ke akwal ahadees mujud hn.lekan logo ne buht se batien in ki tarif se ase mansub ker di jinn ka un se koi taluk nai.unne ne ase hoshare ke sath mansub kia kh quran ki baz ayat ka galat matlab nikal apni baat ko sach zabit kerna chaya.maslan koi shia ya mujtahidd yh bole khalifa awal abu bakr(ra) ko bura bhala kah jye,aur zabut ke torr per koi ayat lye jiss ma ALLAH ne sahaba ko kisse galti per warning de ho.to kya me us ko blindly follow ker lu.nai ma asa nai keru ga agar akl rakhta to kyn kh haz. abu bakr(ra) imam jaffer ke naniyal me se th(app ke dono beto abdurrehman aur muhammed bin bakr ke zariya app imam jaffer ke rishte tarr hn)ab samaj aya akl ka matlab.age humare discussion ma buht se issues ase aye kh jaye app mere baat aur waseh ho jye ge.flhal pareshan na ho rukh ek glass pani pee le :!: imam abu hanifa was a student of imam jaffer(as)

(Allamah Shibli Numani refuted Ibn Taymeeya's claim stating:

"Abu Hanifa sat for a long time at Imam Baqir's feet and acquired from him much valuable knowledge of Fiqh and Hadith not available anywhere else. Shia's and Sunni's are agreed that Abu Hanifa derived much of his learning from Baqir. He learned a great deal from the imam's son, Ja'far al-Sadiq also, which fact is generally mentioned in the history books. Ibn Taymeeya, however, denies this on the ground that Abu Hanifa and Ja'far al-Sadiq were contemporaries and equals, which ruled out the probability of the former being the latter's pupil. But I consider this sheer imprudence and lack of comprehension on Ibn Taymeeya's part. For all his greatness as an original thinker and master of fiqh, Abu Hanifa could not compare in learning with Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq. The Ahl'ul bayt were the fountainhead of Fiqh and Hadith and, in fact, all religious learning. "The master of the house knows best what is in it", to quote a well-known Arabic saying". (Imam Abu Hanifa, by Allamah Shibli Numani page 40).

maybe this is a new info for u and ariba)

 Abu Hanifa says, “ If it was not for those two years (the period that Abu Hanifa was the student of Imam Sadiq A.S), Nu'man would have perished.†The foremost Islamic alchemist Jabir Ibn Hayyan (known in Europe as Geber) was his most prominent student. Other famous students of his were Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi and Malik Ibn Anas, the founders of thr Sunni schools of jurisprudence, and Wasil ibn Ata, the founder of the Mutazilite school of Islamic thought.

Ja'far was known for his liberal views on learning, and was keen to debate with scholars of different faiths and of different beliefs. Abu Hanifa is quoted by many souces as having said "My knowledge extends to only two years. The two I spent with Ja'far al-Sadiq". Some Islamic scholars have gone so far as to call Ja'far al-Sadiq as the root of most of Islamic jurisprudence, having a massive influence on Hanafi, Maliki and Shia schools of thought extending well into mainstream Hanbali and Shafi'i thought.

My Webpage

One of the great students of Imam Jaffer E Sadik was Abu Hanifa. Abu Hanifa knew the Qur'an by heart and had memorised over 100,000 sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. The saying of the Prophet are called Ahadith. Abu Hanifa is said to recite the Qur’an in every three days and fast for most of the year. He traveled to Baghdad where he was murdered by an evil king called Mansoor. His body was dragged on the streets of Baghdad on a cart. But his teachings remained and many people began to follow him. His followers were called Sunni Muslims and his law was called Hanafia Law. 

There are three other law givers in Sunni Islam and they are Imam Malik, Imam Shafi and Imam Hanbal. They had all been inspired by the teachings of Imam Jaffer E Sadik. They were all great scholars of their time and they all knew the Qur'an by heart. It is very interesting to study their lives and their teachings in detail. 

My Webpage

next point is ariba and rukh imam bukhari did not believe in imam abu hanifa and did not narrate fromyes check the proof

Bukhari admits that he has something in his heart against Ja'far. Even Dhahabi criticized Bukhari for that.

Not al-Bukhari. It is Yahya ibn Sa`id al-Qattan who reportedly admitted "having something in his heart against Ja`far" meaning his reliability as a narrator. It might - Allahu a`lam - have something to do with reports from Ja`far through his son Muhammad, who publicly admitted to forging hadiths as I documented in my recent post on the hadith of the angel of death asking permission.

Imam al-Bukhari definitely had something in his heart against Imam Abu Hanifa, do you see Hanafis attack the reliability of the Sahih for it? On the contrary, they and the rest of the Sunnis accept it as the soundest book under the sky after the Glorious Qur'an, on our head and our eyes.

this is the verdict of great sunni scholar g.f haddad.authentic and a knowledgable man here is the linkMy Webpage pir app dono ke confidence per mujhe buht herani hui.u both behaving as u have swimmed the whole ocean of knowledge.deen ka mukammal ilm hn app dono ke pass.

I dont agree............

Humein to apne ulama per poora aitemad hai

here is rukh again

ab yahan hamray scholers lika IMAM Abu hanifa . Imam bukharee etc hain jin ki taqleed hum kertay hain pooray aytmad k sath

ok check this hadith of bukhari( there are numerous weak hadiths in bukhari and muslim and shia hadith books also like al-kafi)

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 329:

Narrated Abu Dhar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Someone came to me from my Lord and gave me the news (or good tidings) that if any of my followers dies worshipping none (in any way) along with Allah, he will enter Paradise." I asked, "Even if he committed illegal sexual intercourse (adultery) and theft?" He replied, "Even if he committed illegal sexual intercourse (adultery) and theft."

so if we follow the title of book sahih bukhari the wordsahih and consider everything in it to be authenic then what do u make up of these hadiths or agar iss ki isnad sahih be ho to sunni mujtahid app se bole iss ki isnad sahih hn to ariba and rukh will u believe that holy nabi(saw) would have said so :angry2: kya kere ge app?apniakl use kere ge because this hadith is khilaf-e-quran and sunnah and u will not accept it.what are your comments dear sisters ariba and rukhor ijtyhad main FIQAh main Mujtahid ki tareef yeh k

woh quran k 500 ahkamat kay ayat us ko yad hoon isee terah ahdees or sahaba kay zamnay main honay walay tmam qaza o qadar say waqif ho or arabi lughat main mahrat rakhta ho to us ka ijtyhad MUATBER HAY

or inhee MUJHTAHDEEN ki taqleed ki jate hay k aisa ILM her ik ko nahi milta na her koi is mertaba tuk pohnchta hay !mere iss baat se koi ikhtelaf nahi but at some issues we have to think because sometimers they try to be diehard defenders of their institution without logic and sense.inshallah humare discussion ma ase issues aye ge.me khud ayatuulah syed seestani(iraq ke sub se bare shia alim) sahib ki talqeed kerta hn.iss liye imam jaffer(as) ne farmaya keh her ek baat ki bazghast (checking) kitab-e-ALAH aur sunnat-erasul(saw) se kero,agar us ke mutabik ho to sahih hn werna woh ek khubsurat jhoot hn.yahi qaul ahl-esunnat ke aima araba(4 sunni imams of fiqah) ka hn agar humare akwal ko khilaf-esunnat pao ko tark ker do usso.kisse ne yh nai bola kh humare follwers ban ker blind talqeed kero werna to koi be insan app ko misguide ker de kh falah imam ne yh humara(kyn kh aj woh log zinda nahi)

.Aqal Quaarn ka samne khamosh rahay, mustand Hadith ajay to apna sar jhuka day,yeh aqal hai.agar koe apni hut dharmi per qaem rahay to woh jahil hai.

:D

:D x 400 ,mere pyare sis ariba iss baat ko to meh roh raha hn.akl ka yahi istemal.rukh ki baat be sahi hr insan ki akl mutabir nai.best is that of mujtahid but follw with caution well where is ibadat,eiman alexander.why are they not in the discussion?unne be chayeh tah kh woh be humare sath apne khayalat share kerte.ok buddies now me sarde buht hn.app dono be ariba aur rukh have a glass of water.bye for now

[rukh 25]

well sisters mere be dua hn kh me kalima ki discussion tak paunch jao sahee baat suruh hui aur objections started

jahan 2 mukhtlaif nazryat kay hamil log mojood hon wahan objection ik fitree bat hay ..app bhi yehee ker rahay hain ..ager app ghor fermain to !

to rukh app khud dekh le quran ne kuffar ke leaders ko be imam kaha hn?kya app un ki talqeed kere ge??????? make sense

lolzz.. ab main kia kahoon .. app ka yeh sawal is qader bachkana hay k main ummeed nahi ker rahee ! maini ap say arz kia tha k IMAM us ko kehtay jis ki taqleed ho kuafar kay leaders ko imam quran nay kion kaha ? is ley k kufar in ki taqleed kertay thay .. itne sence to her muslman main hay kay quran nay jub un ko kufar ka imam kaha hay muslmano ka nahi to hum kion un ki taqleed kernay lagay ...app nay imam jafer ko imam kaha or sath main likh diya un nay taqleed say roka to is per sawal kia jub app un ki taqleed nahi kertay to imam kion keh rahay hain ....

jee han imam jaffer sadiq(as) shia ke nasdeek ahlul bayt ke 12 imams ma se 6th imam th

jee haan mujhay maloom hay applogon kay 12 imam hain or in ki app log kia haqeeqat bayan kertay hain ainda is per bhi tafseele bat ho jaye gee

2 imam hanifa aur bukhari be ah humare sath mujud nahi.aj humare pass inn logo ke akwal ahadees mujud hn.lekan logo ne buht se batien in ki tarif se ase mansub ker di jinn ka un se koi taluk nai

is ki behtreen missal to Shia mazhab ki sub say bare kitab jis ko manay baghir koi shia ho nahi sakta AL - KAFFI hay mulahiza fermain

Aljamia al kaffi main KITAb Alroza kay akhree hissay main ik riwayat hay or rawi murid muhamad bin muslim hain jin ko imam jaffer rehmatulah ka khas mureed mana jata hay woh bayan kertay hain

main ik din imam jaffer sadiq rehmatullah ki khidmat main hazir hoa us waqt un k pass abu hanifa bethay hoye thay main nay imam jaffer rehmatullah say arz kia k main app per qurban jaoon maini ik ajeeb khwab dekha hay ,,imam jafeer rehamtulah nay fermaya ibn-e-muslim apna khwab bayan kero.khawaboon ki tabeer janay walay ik alim yahan mojood hain or hath say IMAM ABU HANIFA rehamtulllah ki teraf ishara kia .....is kay bad muhammad in muslim nay khwab bayan kia or imam abu hanifa snay tabeer batyee or tabeer sun ker imam jaffer rehmatullah nay kaha ..khuda ki qasam ay abu hanifa app nay bilkul sahee kaha ..rawi kehtay hain is kay bad imam abu hanifa chalay gayee

to muhmmad bin muslim nay imam jaffer rqzi Allah tala anhu say arz kia is (abuhanifa) NASBI ki tabeer mujhay ache nahi lagee ( yad rahay Nasbi shia hazrat ki khas zaban main galli hhai in kay Alim Alama majlsii nay haqul yaqeen kay baab siffat ahle jahnum page 211 main likha hay jo iran say shaia hoyaa hay k nasbion ka injam woh ho ga jo kafiron ka ho ga)

imam jaffer saqdiq rehamtullah nay fermaya ay aibne muslim ranjeeda na hoo hamare tabeer iin ki tabeer say mukhtalif hay abu hanifa nay sahe tabeer nahi batayee ..to ibne muslim nay pocha phir app nay qasam kha ker tasdeeq kion ki to imam jafer rehmtulla nay kaha main is per qasam khaye thee k abu hanifa ghalte ko pohnach gayee ( yeh riwayat taweel hay )

(is ko ghalat bayani ko ji shia hazrat sabit kertay hain TAKKYA kehtay hain yani samnay khuch kehna or haqeeat kuch or hona ...)

.

maslan koi shia ya mujtahidd yh bole khalifa awal abu bakr(ra) ko bura bhala kah jye,aur zabut ke torr per koi ayat lye jiss ma ALLAH ne sahaba ko kisse galti per warning de ho.to kya me us ko blindly follow ker lunai ma asa nai keru ga agar akl rakhta to kyn kh haz. abu bakr(ra) imam jaffer ke naniyal me se th(app ke dono beto abdurrehman aur muhammed bin bakr ke zariya app imam jaffer ke rishte tarr hn)[/QUOTe)

bilkul aisee bayanat shia mujtahid hee day saktay hain .. kion k unhoo na na quran ko sahee say perha na samjha werna jub app itnee see ummer main is bat ko samjh gaye to ap kay mujhtahid kion na samjhay ..jahan jahan quran nay sahaba per tanbeeh ki sath hee un ki maufee ka ilam kia to is k bad kisi insan ko haq nahi sahaba kay baray ghalat bolay

yehe ferq hay app k or hamray mujhtahdeen main main MASLAn keh ker bhi misal nahi dey sakte is ley k hum jin ka ijhtyhad mantay hain un say zyada taqwa or khof-e-khuda or logon main nahi os is ki gawahee us door k logon say sabit hay...

or app Hazrat abu bakker razi Ala talah unhu ko sirf is ley respect daytay hain ko woh IMAM JAFER rehmatullah kay rishtay dar hain ? yeh maini nahi app nay apni post main reason dey ker khud kaha hay . app k ley NABI ki ahdees Quran ki ayat or Sahabi ka sahabi hona REASON nahi hay bulkau rishtaydaree hay ..yanee hum ferz ker saktay hain jo app kay 12 IMAMOON kay rishtaydar nahi un ki app logon kay nazdeeq koi ahmyat nahi khuah woh kitnay baray sahabi he hoon?

ab samaj aya akl ka matlab.age humare discussion ma buht se issues ase aye kh jaye app mere baat aur waseh ho jye ge.flhal pareshan na ho rukh ek glass pani pee le

mujhay AKAL ka pehlay say he andaza tha is ley app ko arz kia is ko beech main na hee lain ...kion Akal ghalte ker sakte hay lakin Quran or hadees GHlation say mubra hain ...

imam abu hanifa was a student of imam jaffer(as)

(Allamah Shibli Numani refuted Ibn Taymeeya's claim stating

is tafseelat likhnay ki app nay mayhaz zehmat ki imam abu hanifa rehmatullah nay kin kin ustadoon say perha main bohat ache terah jante hoon .. i know imam jaffer sadiq & imam baqar say imam abu hnaifa rehamtullah nay perha or hum in sub ko apna imam mantay hain kion k yeh sub sunnat kay rastay per thay

lakin shiai ulma nay in naik logoon say jo batain mansoob ker k apna mazhab banya sawaye ifsos or dukh k kuch nahi kaha ja sakta . coz imam jaffer rehmatullah or imam baqar rehmatullah say riwayat kernay walay ABU BASEER or ZARAH etc mazhab-e-shia kay khas rawi hain jo apnay app ki imam jafer or imam baqar ka khas mehram-e-raz batlatay hain or apnay loogn say kehtay thay k yeh shia mazhab ki khas batain tanhaye main batatay thay jub koi dosra admi nahi hota thay

next point is ariba and rukh imam bukhari did not believe in imam abu hanifa and did not narrate fromyes check the proofBukhari admits that he has something in his heart against Ja'far. Even Dhahabi criticized Bukhari for that.

Not al-Bukhari. It is Yahya ibn Sa`id al-Qattan who reportedly admitted "having something in his heart against Ja`far" meaning his reliability as a narrator. It might - Allahu a`lam - have something to do with reports from Ja`far through his son Muhammad, who publicly admitted to forging hadiths as I documented in my recent post on the hadith of the angel of death asking permission...Imam al-Bukhari definitely had something in his heart against Imam Abu Hanifa, do you see Hanafis attack the reliability of the Sahih for it? On the contrary, they and the rest of the Sunnis accept it as the soundest book under the sky after the Glorious Qur'an, on our head and our eyes

app ki baz batoon say saaf mallom ho raha hay k app in say kia sabbit kerna chah rahay hain ..behrhal app k ilm main izafay k ley chand batain bataye dayte hoon

imam bukharee is also in HANFI mazhab .. app nay Al bukhare book kitne dafa perha hay ? imam abu hanifa ki ADHe fiqah ap BUKHAREE main dekh saktay

baz jagha ikhtilaf hay lakin us main kaheen say yeh sabit nahi kay woh DIL main kuch ghalat rakhtay thay ..kion kay yeh FIROyee ikhtilaf nabi k door say chlata araha hay ..sahaba kay door main bhi tha ...is per ik taweel behas hay filhal bat ko samytoon gee.. hum ko imam bukharee per aytmad hay jo ahadees unhoon nay jama keen woh 1 to all sahee ormustand hain is main agay tafseele behus hay k kin ahdees per Ammal hota hay orkin per nahi ....or imam abu hanifa per aytmad hay k un ka ijtayhad mazboot hay

app dono ke confidence per mujhe buht herani hui.u both behaving as u have swimmed the whole ocean of knowledge.deen ka mukammal ilm hn app dono ke pass

bilkul app ko hone chaeye kion k yeh ik khas naymat hotee hay apnay baroon per aytmad kerna her ik ko naseeb nahi ...deen ka ilm mukamal nahi isee ley ILM waloo ki taqleed kertay hain k QURAN hum ko yehe sikhata hay

or na jannay walay ilm waloon say poochain (alquran)

kitab-e-ALAH aur sunnat-erasul(saw) se kero,agar us ke mutabik ho to sahih hn werna woh ek khubsurat jhoot hn.yahi qaul ahl-esunnat ke aima araba(4 sunni imams of fiqah) ka hn agar humare akwal ko khilaf-esunnat pao ko tark ker do usso.kisse ne yh nai bola kh humare follwers ban ker blind talqeed kero werna to koi be insan app ko misguide ker de kh falah imam ne yh humara(kyn kh aj woh log zinda nahi

ALLAH ka shuker hay kay hum KOI BHI INSAN k followers nahi hain ..na BLIND hain yeh koi daleel nahi k ajj woh zinda nahi to un per aytmad kerna chor do phir to app ahdees bhi mut manain ..app sahaba ky sunat bhi chor dain woh bhi zinda nahi ? .. ALLAH nay qayamat tuk kay ley is deen-e-muhamde ko mukmal kia or yeh apnay NAIK BANDOON yani WAIRS -UL - ANBIA kay zareye logon tuk pohnchta rahay ga... or QURAN main khud kaha gya hay in taqleed kero

sora fatiha main hay

ay Allah hum ko un logoon k rastay per chala jin logon per appnay inam fermaya

sora nissa main mazeed tafseel fermaye or inam 4 logon per ALLAH nay fermaya

anbia . shuhda , sadiqeen or sualheen ( ULMA)

yeh log jin ki zindge sirf quran or hadees main guzreee in say zyada hum apni AKAL per aytbar kerain .. ? to app he aisa kerain kam say kam main apni AKAL ko in logon kay ilm or taqwa kay samnay kuch nahi samjhtee

PS > bukhare ki jo hadees app nay likhee us ki TAFSEER janna zaroore hay..main jald is per kalam keroon ge INSHALLAH baqe poochna yeh k yeh volume or page number Bukhare ka hay ya Alkafi ka ..

or app say request hay yeh WEB LINK na dain itna waqt nahi hota ka do do jgha per tawajh ke jaye app ko jo likhna hay yahan likhain ....waisy bhi yeh link open nahi ho raha

Edited November 15, 2005 by rukh

[Ibadat 2]

Me is disscussion main hissa nahi le paoon gi lekin agar meri zaroorat ho tu pm me ...

ALLAH TALA Haq or Sachi ko vizea famarey .. Ameen suma Ameen

[the_salman 0]

assalamwalecum

it has to be desided by " ALLAH" that who will be in "jannat" and who will be in "dozakht" . the thing i know is that the people who do not belive in kalma

"lailaha ill lla mohammaduur rasool allah" will go to hell

behtar hoga ki musalmaan apas me firko me na batein. islam ke dushman bohot he.

that's all

allah hafiz

Edited January 28, 2006 by the_salman

[king@collyar.net 0]

janab agar shia kafir hain tu yeh tu un say puchein woh kia kehtay hain :angel:

[Ya_Ali_Mola 0]

Hello-

Assalam-o-Alikum

Hum Log to tum se ache hain. Quran main likha hai kise ko bura bhalla maat kaho.

Aur tum ko shia's ko boorah bhalla kehte ho.aur uper se jhhot.Hum log kisi ko boora bhalla nahi kehta.tum logoon ki mishaal kafroon ki hain jab Hazrat Muhammad (S.A.W) Islam ki Tabligh kar rahe the to kafir Musalmanoo ko Borrah balla kehta the. bhi khud andaza laga lo.

Ya ALi A.S Mola

Thanks

Your OLD Friend

Mohammad Abbas

[ariba 0]

Asalam u Alikum;

Welcome to CY.

Hum Log to tum se ache hain. Quran main likha hai kise ko bura bhalla maat kaho.

Aur tum ko shia's ko boorah bhalla kehte ho.aur uper se jhhot.Hum log kisi ko boora bhalla nahi kehta.tum logoon ki mishaal kafroon ki hain jab Hazrat Muhammad (S.A.W) Islam ki Tabligh kar rahe the to kafir Musalmanoo ko Borrah balla kehta the. bhi khud andaza laga lo.

Ohhhh really app kisi ko bura bhala nahin kehty???

main apki iss bat see itefaq nahin karti.App uss jamat ko bura bhala kehty hoo jis ko nabi(SAALLAH HU ALEH WASALUM) see faiz uthay ka sharaf mila.

Woh loog jin Quraan Main tareef hui.

App un logon ko bura kehty hoo jin ko Nabi(SAW) ne jaanat ki bisharat di.

App Nabi(SAW) ki uss zojah mohterma ko bura bhala kehty ko jin ki iffat ki Quraan ne gawahee di.Aur yeh b bata diya k aisi baat karne waly k liye duniya aur akhrat dono main azab hai.

Hum app k iss buray amal ki waja see apko bura kahty hain aur hum unn mouazaz hasityoon ki touheen nahin bardasht kar sakty.

Humein unn se mouhabbat hai aur UNKI SHAN MAIN GHUTASKHI KARNE WALE KO HUM BURA BHALA HI KAHIN GAY.

App ko bura bhala kehne see humnein Quraan ne nahin roka.Haan albata App nabi(SAW) ko eza zaroor day rahy hoo.

Iss ka saboot yeh Hadith hai.

"MERE SAHABA(Rizawan ALLAH HU AlehIM)K BARAY MAIN ALLAH SEE DARO.ALLAH SEE DARO.UNKO MERE BAAD ETARAZAT AUR TANQEED KA NISHANA MUT BANAOO.KIUNK UNN SE JIS NE MOUHABBAT KI,MERI MOUHABBAT KI WAJA SEE KI.AUR JIS NE UNN SE KENA RAKHA US NE MUJH SEE KENA RAKHA.AUR JIS NE UNKO EZA DI USS NE MUJHAY EZA DI,AUR JIS NE MUJHAY EZA DI USS NE ALLAH KO EZA DI,AUR JIS NE ALLAH KO EZA DI TOU ALLAH JALD HI USKI PAKAR FARMAIEN GAY.

(MISHKAWT,TIRMAZI)

Aub jo app keh rahy hoo k mushrik loog hi nabi(SAW) ko tang kiya karty thay wo to app pe fit baith rahi hai kiun k uss door main aur ajj b mounafiq aur kafir hi yeh kaam kiya karty thay.

Hope u get my point!!

Also hope to c u around.Again welcome n enjoy ur stay over here.

[a1b2c3 0]

AOA

Mohammad Abbas: It look very strage from to hear that "you people" do not say bad to others. (you may be only exmple) and I have heard "you people" all the say bad to our Sahaba Akrams. If "you people" say bad to us only then propbably none of us will mind but you say non-sence about the first 3 Khulfia Rashdeen which is wrong.

[Ya_Ali_Mola 0]

Listen You hear that Idoim "Panchoon ungliyan baraba nahi hoti"

and The Caliph killed the Child Of Fatima (A.S) name Mohsin.Which was not born.

And i request to the Owner of The CooLYar Community that close this topic...

Your Old Friend

Mohammad Abbas

[ariba 0]

Hello-

Assalam-o-Alikum

Hum Log to tum se ache hain. Quran main likha hai kise ko bura bhalla maat kaho.

Aur tum ko shia's ko boorah bhalla kehte ho.aur uper se jhhot.Hum log kisi ko boora bhalla nahi kehta.tum logoon ki mishaal kafroon ki hain jab Hazrat Muhammad (S.A.W) Islam ki Tabligh kar rahe the to kafir Musalmanoo ko Borrah balla kehta the. bhi khud andaza laga lo.

Ya ALi A.S Mola

Thanks

Your OLD Friend

Mohammad Abbas

177312[/snapback]

Yeh koe logical baat nahin.baar baar aik hi baat ko repeat kar rahe hoo.

Kafir tou woh hai jo Hazart Abu bakar,Umer,usman(Rizwan Allah aleh him ajmaieen) ko bura bhala kahty hain aur unko khalifah nahin mante.Ankhein band kar k tareekh ka inkar kiye ja rahy hain.

Kafir hi ankhein band kar k haqeqat ka inkar karty thay......

[ariba 0]

Listen You hear that Idoim "Panchoon ungliyan baraba nahi hoti"

and The Caliph killed the Child Of Fatima (A.S) name Mohsin.Which was not born.

And i request to the Owner of The CooLYar Community that close this topic...

Your Old Friend

Mohammad Abbas

177606[/snapback]

Dont participate if u dont have healthy attitude towards the topic.y requesting admins??just dont reply.

[MuhammadAmjadIqbal 0]

AUA WR WB

Ah! Another incident of Never-ending-discussions!!!

[Ibadat 2]