Abu_Hanzala 2 Posted May 6, 2006 Baaqi baaton k jawaabat Ariba sis ne bohot acchay andaaz main dey diye hain...oos main agar kuch add kerna hua tou inshAllah i will reply very soon.... courios_One>> Simple sa question hai aap sey,bal k saaray Shia Hazrat sey hai , agar aap reply ker detey hain tou umeed kerta hoon k baat saari khul ker saamnay aajayegi....... Sawal ye hai k : Kiya Aap Hazrat Abbu Bakar Hazrat Umer or Hazrat Usman ko musalmaan tasleem kertey hain? or un ki jo Islam k liye Garaanqadar khidmaat hain ,uss ko maantay hain??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ÑÎK$$ 0 Posted May 6, 2006 Wow it's really nice post i like all of them :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 6, 2006 Baaqi baaton k jawaabat Ariba sis ne bohot acchay andaaz main dey diye hain...oos main agar kuch add kerna hua tou inshAllah i will reply very soon....courios_One>> Simple sa question hai aap sey,bal k saaray Shia Hazrat sey hai , agar aap reply ker detey hain tou umeed kerta hoon k baat saari khul ker saamnay aajayegi....... Sawal ye hai k : Kiya Aap Hazrat Abbu Bakar Hazrat Umer or Hazrat Usman ko musalmaan tasleem kertey hain? or un ki jo Islam k liye Garaanqadar khidmaat hain ,uss ko maantay hain??? 184115[/snapback] Kissi insaan ko musalman tasleem karna eik alag baat hai, or uskey khidmaat alag, yes unko muslaman mantay hai, lekin unki khidmat ko nahi matnay kay unhonay koie bohat ziadak hidmat key hoon islam key. Or jaha tak app ka kehna hai kay ariba nay achay andaz mei ajwab dey diya hai to unkay jawabat kay baray mei jo likha hai mei nay woh app nay ignore kar diya. Doosray baat shorro houie thee thawheed say yes mei bohat cheezai laya lekin app nay yeh nahi dekha kay doosro nay kiya baat key thee jiskay jawab mei .. .mei doosri cheezai laya, app kay sath nahi laya.. ariba or sobe say jo discussion ho raha hai usmei doosri cheezai laya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ariba 0 Posted May 6, 2006 Arabi ka he tarjuma hai, app or bhee kitabai parhai usmei urdu mei bhee tarjuma naraz he millayga. Or challai app ka tarjuma sahi man liya kay sahi alfaz hai mutalibah wapis lay liyay, agar yeh baat hotiee to Hz. Ayesha pihr yeh zikr kiyo karti kay or Janab-e-Fatima 6 mahenay zinda rahi, matlab jub tak zinda rahi naraz rahi. Or yeh app key he kitabo mei tarjuma hai kay naraz rahi or app kay boaht baray baray scholars nay manna hai is baat ko kay yeh hadith yehee keh rai hi kay naraz rahi. Main Tou arabic ko hi prefer karoon gi.Aub dobarah arabic likhti hoon"Fa hajarat hu Fatimah(R.A) wa lum tatakulm hata maatat"Yeh alfaz hain k Hazart fatimah ne moutalibah chord diya aur dobarah iss per kalam na kiya yahan k apki wafat hoo gaee.yani umer bhar dobarah iss baray main kalam nahin kiya. Scholors koonse??main b scholor ki baat hi apko bata rahi hoon. Scholors tou Hazart Abu bakar(R.A) ko khalefa-e-Awwal b manty hain.aur b bohut kuch manty hain.wahan ap unko nahin manty. Nahi yeh app key kitabo mei hai kay karli thee bayat, hum nahi mantay kay aisa houa tha. Waisay itna to app ko bhee pata hoga kay app key kitabo mei hai kay kar li thee lekin forun nahi, shoror mei kafi problems houie thee yeh woh, matlab app log he matnay hai kay app kay eik khalifa he nahi man raheay thay. Nahin nahin bait tou ki thi accoding to ur book.Lakin app usko taquiya bolty hoo.Reference chahye??day doon gi jahan likha hua hai k hazart Ali(R.A) ne majbooran bait ki thi kiun k unka sath daine wala koe nahin tha.Mujhay afsoos hoo raha hai k itne baray shujaat mand aur dalair Sahabi(R.A) yani harazt Ali(R.A) per app ki book main itna bara bohtaan laga diya k unhoon ne majboor hoo kar bait ki. Hazart Ali(R.A) see kofa ki masjid main minber per poocha gaya k app logon ne Hazart Abu bakar(ra) ko khaeefa kiun banaya? App ne farmaya k deen k sab kamoon main namaz ahem hai.Hazoor(SAW) ne apne maraz-e-wafat mainHazart Abu bakar(R.A) ko hi humara imam-e-namaz banaya.main wahan moujood tha aur meri moujoodgi ka App(SAW) o ilm b tha magar hazoor(SAW) ne Hazart Abu bakar(R.A) ko hukam diya k namaz parhaien.SO JIS KO HAZOOR(SAW) NE HUMARAY DEEEN KI IMAMAT K LIYE CHUNA TOU HUM NE USSI KO APNI DUNIYA KI QAYADT K LIYE CHUN LIYA. Waise b Quraan main ata hai k Allah jisko apne bundon main see chahty hain khilafat ata karty hain tou Allah ne ahazart Abu bakar ko sab see pehly khalafat ata kar di.aur shnadar ata ki. Humara ghagra tou khatam hoo gaya tha.waqti tha Allah ne madad farma di thi.per app mujhay batein naa 12 imam kay naam?kitna ikhtelaaf hai uss main?aur Quraan jo aj tak app ne b nahin dekha?Aur wo cave?kaiee baar tou unk ane ki khabar di per wo aye hi nahin. Soura-e-Kausar kub nazil houie thee yeh to app janti hongi, jub kufar Hzaoor pay tanz kartay thay kay app Rasool Abtar hai, matlab koie agay waris nahi aulad nahi, tub nazil houie thee kay khuda app ko khair-e-kaseer atta karayga, ussay murad Janab-e-Fatima hai ummat nahi. Agar ummat hoti to ummat khair-e-kaiseer kaha hai? I am not sure kay app nay he kaha tha ya kisis or nay issi thread mei kay ummat ka kiya hashare hai. (ab agar app nay nai kaha ho to kisis or nay kaha hoga, im not sure) Ummat kay un afrad ko kaha hai jo Anbiya k kaam ko agay chalaty hain. Har waqat main aisi jamat moujood rahe gi jo deen main nae nae batoon kay izafay kay khlaaf kaam kary gi aur deen ko uski asli shakal main mehfooz rakhy gi.yeh aik hadith k mafhoom hai.Yeh jo app ne tafseer farmie hai wo kiun farmaiee hai?app jab manty hi nahin siry see tou tafaseer b mat karin.Khair-e-kaseer k baray main kitne aqwal hain yeh agar apko chahyein tou main post kar doongi.ok? To app ko agar passand ho yahoodi ya esaiyo ka tareeqa to app upna lejay humei mushriko say koie wasta nahi. Waisay app khod soochai kay app standard kiss ko bana rahi hai yahoodio ka esaiyo ko? Or Rasool Allah kay ashab kaisay thay issay nabowat ka maqsad kaisay khatam hota hai?? Mosa kay toor pay jannay per kasariyat yahoodio key gaye key pooja karnay lagi thee to kiya mosa ka maqsad khatam hogaya?? Lolzzz.Really apko koe wasta nahin??Yeh sara chakar chalaya hua hi aik mounafiq yahoodi ka hai jis ka naam Ibne saba tha.yeh apki book main likha hua hai pichly kisi page per refernce k sath bata chuki hoon. Main ne apne liye kahan standard banaya hai?Main tou Sahaba ki adalat,shujaat aur un k hidayat per hone ko apne eman k hissa smajhti hoon.Mere liye wo Ummmat k behtreen loog thay.Yeh mera eman hai.app apne app ko daikh lein.main ne jhoot tou nahin kaha.app apne apko Shaba see behter nahin janty kiya??App hi kehty hoo unko jo kehty hoo. Allah muaf kary yahan tou kisi nee gaye ki poga nahin ki.waise b Hazart Mousa(A.S) tou wapis agay thay unko saza b day di.per App(SAW) tou wafat pa chukay hain.Aub Allah khud hi nimty gein gumrah hoo jane waloon see.Wiase b iss deen ki hifazat ka zimmah Allah ne liya hai.Whan aisi koe baat nahin thi. Konsi hadith?? konsi Aik he haidth hai jisski eik baat mani ho or doosri nahi?? Second waisya mei app ko yeh bata doon kay mei nay jo hadith app key paish key hai woh kiyokay app key hai or app manti hai is liyay warna bukhari mei kissi hadith ka hona na hona usko sahi ya ghalat sabit nahi karta. Yehi Hazart Fatimah(R.A) kay moutalbe wali.App ne tou ahadith ka b ikaar kar diya.Quaarn ka b kar diya.Khuli ankhoon see daikh kar b. Clear kaha say app doobara jayee or meri post parahi us mei nay saaf saaf likha hai kay app key kitabo mei hia kay duniyavi cheezai milli wirasat mei, duniyavi or nabowat key baat ley kar beth gayee. Seriously app bura nahi maniyga jo such baat hai woh keh raha hoon, pehlay app key tone bohat different thee ab change hogaye hai, I respect that lekin pls jo likho ussay parhia to mei upnay he post mei say doobara quote karta hoon kaisa change?cant guess?waise b Yahan per tone ko app na notice karin.meri tone tou aisi hi hai.app meri baat notice kar lien.Unko Allah ne unkay baap k baad zameen per khalifa banaya.Nabuwat di saath main khilafat di.so khilafat koon deta hai ??Allah!!!poori terha pehly Quraan ki ayat parh lien. Mujh jaiso ko batain bannay ka mouqa mill gaya, ab app personal attack per uttar raih hai, woh mei bhee kar sakta hoon. lekin shayad app ka maqsad kuch or ho mera maqsad ayah discussion karnay ka yeh nahi hai kay doosro pay attach karoo.. Khair... Nahin janab main kiun karo gi Attack?App yahan aik ppory sect ko represent kar rahy hain main ne iss hawaly see kaha hai.waise kiya main discussion nahin kar rahi? Jee bukhari phari hai. ekin ill be honest kay poori nahi parhi but yes kafi had tak mutala kiya hai. Or uski hadith mei nay quote kiyo key uska mei pehay he explanation dey choka hoon, app samjhi kay mei bukhari ko mautabir manta hoon, aisa nahi hai, or waja mei nay shoror mei likh dey hai. Kisko moutabir manty hain app??Mishkawt ko?Lakin yeh warasat wali hadith tou yahin per hai.app ne nahin mani tou phir app ko kaise pata chala k Hazart ABu bakar k khilaaf hona hai?Bukhari ki Jild sani main tafseer-e-Quraan hai.wahan per Hazart Ibn-e-Abbas kay kaee Qool hain.unki tafseer hai.Moujahid ra unka shagird hain.30 baar unn see tafseer parhi hai.Hazart Ibn-e-Abbas (R.A) ko tou manty hain naa?wagar wo iss Quraan ko nahin manty thay tou unhoon nee tafseer kiun ki??unki baat b app k haan moutabir nahin? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ariba 0 Posted May 6, 2006 First of All, as Ariba has said k Lafz ,Mowla , k kayee matlab hain in arabic dictionary, Mowla ka matlab Aaqaa bhi aata hai or Ghulam bhi ata hai, ab jo Hadith aap ne paish ki, uss ka Siyaaq-o-Sabaaq dekhna parray ga k kis context main kaha gaya hai,Lekin ek baat zehen nasheen ker li jaaye k jo Hadith aap ne ziker ki hai , is ko agar arabic grammer k lihaaz sey bhi dekha jaaye tou ye Ibaarat ghalat hai....agar ye Ism-e-Mosool hai tou is ka Sila or Raabta kiya hai?? or agar tou Lafz "MANN" istifhaamiya hai tou khabar kahan hai?? or agar "MANN" shartiya hai tou "Jaza " kahan gayee ? or wo kon si zameer hai jo MANN ki taraf lot rahi hai?? thirdly "MANN " main umoom hai , tou is main Muzakkar or Moannis dono shaamil hain, tou agar is main aap kisi ek ko khaas kertey hain tou kis alaamat sey khaas kerein gey?????.... jab ek Ibarat arabic grammer k lihaaz sey bhi theek nahi tou aisi ibaarat ka "Sahihain" main hona naa mumkin si baat hai...... Lafz-e-Mowla ka ziker tou baad main dekha jaayega, pehley tou mujhe aap ye batayein k Lafz "MANN" ki kitni iqsaam hain???or kis kis meanings k liye istimaal hota hai??? Now Coming to the word "Al-Mowla" is k urdu main jitnay bhi matlab hain ,main wo saaray yahan likh raha hoon taa k baat ko samajhnay main aasaani ho. MOWLA means , Maalik, Aaqaa, Ghulaam, Sardaar,Azaad kerney wala, Inaaam deney waala, wo jis ko Inaam diyaa jaaye,Mohabbat kerney waala saathi,Haleef, parrosi(neighbour), mehmaan,baita, chaccha ka baita,bhaanja,Daamaad,rishtay daar, wali, taaabay,,,,,,, itnay saaray matlab hain ,,,ab kis matlab main ye liya gaya hai , ye hadith k siyaaq or sabaaq sey pata lagana parray ga.......lekin jahan tak humaray ilm main hai, tou hum ye samajhtay hain k ye ibaarat ghalat hai, or jaisa k pehley bhi ziker kiya k Sahihain main aisi ibaarat nahi ho sakti tou phir matlab nikaalnay ki bhi zaroorat nahi parrey gi....beher haal i will go and search about that! Ariba>> Allah Tala jazaaye khair ata fermaaye or aap ki mehnat ko qubool fermaaye! see the next post 184096[/snapback] Wah wah.yeh nahwi aur sarfi behas parhne ka bohut maza aya.yummmyy.Jazak Allah Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 7, 2006 Main Tou arabic ko hi prefer karoon gi.Aub dobarah arabic likhti hoon"Fa hajarat hu Fatimah(R.A) wa lum tatakulm hata maatat"Yeh alfaz hain k Hazart fatimah ne moutalibah chord diya aur dobarah iss per kalam na kiya yahan k apki wafat hoo gaee.yani umer bhar dobarah iss baray main kalam nahin kiya. Scholors koonse??main b scholor ki baat hi apko bata rahi hoon. App say jiss hadith kay baray mei baat ho rahi hia uska tarjuma bhee app key hi kitaboo say kiya tha upni taraf say nahi kiya, lekin appk o woh manzoor nahi. Or agar app dekhna chahti hai to google pay jayee sahi bukhari search karein or kissi bhee site say dkeh lei app ko hadith bhee mill jayegi or uska tarjuma bhee, phri bhee app khod tarjuma karna chahai to it jsut shows that you are being stubborn and do not wanna accept what majority of muslim ummah has accepted. Scholors tou Hazart Abu bakar(R.A) ko khalefa-e-Awwal b manty hain.aur b bohut kuch manty hain.wahan ap unko nahin manty. Jee again app ko doboara yeh baat samjhani paraygi scholars app kay hai or app manti hai lekin app unhi scholars ka tarjuma nahi man rahi jo bukhari key hadith kar woh kartay hai. Mei eik or dafa app ko bata ta hoon kay appko appkay scholars key batain bata kay dikha raha hon kay khod unki upni batao mei kitna contradiction hai lekin phir app wohee baat kar rahia hi kay mei unki yeh baat manta hoon to unkay kehnay pay Abu Bakar ko khaflifa kiyo nahimanta. Chalai app kay mutabiq mei to ghalat hoon app to sahi hai app to kahlifa bhee manti hai to unka kiya houa tarjuma bhee mannay :) Nahin nahin bait tou ki thi accoding to ur book.Lakin app usko taquiya bolty hoo.Reference chahye??day doon gi jahan likha hua hai k hazart Ali(R.A) ne majbooran bait ki thi kiun k unka sath daine wala koe nahin tha.Mujhay afsoos hoo raha hai k itne baray shujaat mand aur dalair Sahabi(R.A) yani harazt Ali(R.A) per app ki book main itna bara bohtaan laga diya k unhoon ne majboor hoo kar bait ki. Challai mei man leta hoon kay eik adh kisis shia key likhi houie kitab mei shayad ho' date=' lekin baqi lakho kitabo mei jo likha hai kay nahi key bait uska kiya karoo? Agar app ka he standard istemal karoo to uskitab key baqi batain bhee to man lei app. yeh logic ghalat hai lekin app key ghalti app he bhugtain na. Mujhay app ko samjhany kay liyay ap key kitab ka hawal diya to ap nay kaha baqi batian bhee manoo ab yehe tareeqa app khod upnay sath bhee istemal karei kiyonkay app ko yehe sahi lagta hai. Waise b Quraan main ata hai k Allah jisko apne bundon main see chahty hain khilafat ata karty hain tou Allah ne ahazart Abu bakar ko sab see pehly khalafat ata kar di.aur shnadar ata ki. Bus app key yeh baat mujhey sub say ziada passand ayee boaht passand ayee seriuosly. To ab pls app is baat pay yaqeen karei pakka aqeeda rakhai. App kay alfaz hai kay "Quraan main ata hai k Allah jisko apne bundon main see chahty hain khilafat ata karty hain pls ispay poora aqeeda rakh lei or mujhey research karkay bata dien kay Hz Abu Bakar kay khalifa bannay ka kiay tareeqa tha, ijmaa houa tha shorra houa tha ya bus khuda nay bana diay tha???? Pls sirif app yeh research karkay batain or jo khod app nay likha hai ussay milla lei plsss... serouisly dekhai app shio say mujhsay jitna chahee nafrat kar lei... lekin pls jo baat app ko khod samjh ayee hai jo khod quran mei appko nazar ayee hai usko manti bhee hai to thori research karein or dekhai kay ap kay scholars kiya kethay hai kay khalifa kasiay bannay hz Abu Bakar. Pls app yeh kaam zaroor karein. Humara ghagra tou khatam hoo gaya tha.waqti tha Allah ne madad farma di thi. To mati hai kay jhagra tha hum bhe to yehi keh rahi hay bus farq yaha per yeh hai kay app key research kay utabqi kahtam hogaya tha humari research kay mutabiq nahi houa tha. App ka kehna tha na shorro mei kay Janab-Fatima kaisay eik choti see cheez (bagh-e-fidak) kay liyay naraz hongi. to Ab dekhai yeh khalifa kaisya jhagra kar rahey hai?? Kiya baat thee jhagray key app yeh bhee to batian kiss baat pay jahgra houa tha??? y batein naa 12 imam kay naam?kitna ikhtelaaf hai uss main?aur Quraan jo aj tak app ne b nahin dekha?Aur wo cave?kaiee baar tou unk ane ki khabar di per wo aye hi nahin. App bara imam kay naam janna chati hai bilkol bata sakta hoon 12 kay naam lekin issay maqsad kiya hai ap ka??? app ko pata nahi kiya maloomat hogi shio kay 12 imamo kay baray mei but humaray pass unki poori life history mojodd hia bulkay sirif humarya pass nahi sunnio key kitabo mei bhee mojood hai. Issi liyay app kay Azam Tariq kaha kartay thay kay shio kay pehlay 11 imam jo hia woh to bohat mautabir haistyai hai unko kuch nahi kehna but shia jisko 12 imam mantay hai woh ghalat hai. To 11 tak to app kay upnay ullama bhee matnay hai app kiyo iss baat pay behes kar rahi ahi or agar karni hai to jakay pehlay upnay ullama say kar lei phir humsay baat keyjayga. Doosray 12 imam ka itkhetalf itna hai kay app log kehtay hai woh padia hongay shia kehtay hai paida ho chokay hai. To agar shio say pooch rahi hai kay 12imam kah ahia to pehlay khod bhee to batayee jiss ka app log bhee intenzar kar rahay hai kay paida hoga woh kaha hai hai??Abhi tak paida nahi houa?? afrad ko kaha hai jo Anbiya k kaam ko agay chalaty hain. Har waqat main aisi jamat moujood rahe gi jo deen main nae nae batoon kay izafay kay khlaaf kaam kary gi aur deen ko uski asli shakal main mehfooz rakhy gi.yeh aik hadith k mafhoom hai.Yeh jo app ne tafseer farmie hai wo kiun farmaiee hai?app jab manty hi nahin siry see tou tafaseer b mat karin.Khair-e-kaseer k baray main kitne aqwal hain yeh agar apko chahyein tou main post kar doongi.ok? Ab again jo mei nay baat key thee ap nay woh parhi nahi bus behes barayee bbehes' date=' mei nay app say kaha tha ya nahi kay yeh dekhai yeh ayat kiss waqt ayee ussay app ko khod thora samjh ayega kay khair-e-kaseer say ki8ya mruad hai. app nay woh baat ignore kar di or pat anahi kiya keh rahi ahi yaha. or yeh jo hadith ka mafhoom keh rahi hai app woh hadith nahi hai quran key ayat hai sour-e-Kausar key baat ho rhai thee. Lolzzz.Really apko koe wasta nahin??Yeh sara chakar chalaya hua hi aik mounafiq yahoodi ka hai jis ka naam Ibne saba tha.yeh apki book main likha hua hai pichly kisi page per refernce k sath bata chuki hoon. To app manti hai kay us daur mei munafiq bhee mojodo thay?? matlab sirif is waja say kay koie sahabi tha uska ehtram karna ghalat hai jub tak chracter nahi dekh lei, matlab saray sahabi to sitaroo key manind ho nahi saktay kay kisis key bhee paravi karoo. Doosray ibne saba ka humari kitab ka keh rahi ahi likha hai but kiya likha hai yeh bhee to bataye.. Main ne apne liye kahan standard banaya hai?Main tou Sahaba ki adalat' date='shujaat aur un k hidayat per hone ko apne eman k hissa smajhti hoon.Mere liye wo Ummmat k behtreen loog thay.Yeh mera eman hai.app apne app ko daikh lein.main ne jhoot tou nahin kaha.app apne apko Shaba see behter nahin janty kiya??App hi kehty hoo unko jo kehty hoo.[/quote'] App nay he standard kay taur pay yahoodi or esaiyo key baat key thee mi nay nahi.. to ab upni baat say app mukar rahi ahi. Doosray abhi oper app nay ibne saba ko munafiq kaha or abhi sahaba ka itna bara muqam bhee bata rahi ahi.. sahi hai sahaba ka bohat bara muqam hai lekin sub sahaba ka nahi...or agar app sub sahaba ka muqam buland mannay gi to phir yeh bine saba kaha jayega??? Allah muaf kary yahan tou kisi nee gaye ki poga nahin ki.waise b Hazart Mousa(A.S) tou wapis agay thay unko saza b day di.per App(SAW) tou wafat pa chukay hain.Aub Allah khud hi nimty gein gumrah hoo jane waloon see.Wiase b iss deen ki hifazat ka zimmah Allah ne liya hai.Whan aisi koe baat nahin thi. Ab app key upni baat bhee app ko samjhani paraygi' date=' app ka yeh kehna tha kay Yahood se pocho lo k apki ummat main sab see afzal loog koon huay woh kahin gay hazart mousa ka sahabi.Esaiyoon see poch loo woh kahin gay Hazart esa ka havari lakin agar app shaiyoon see poch lein k ummat k badtareen loog koon hain tou app keho gay "Hazart Muhammad (SAW) k Sahaba.Istaghfirullah!!Goya App(SAW) ki nabiwat ka maqsad ki khatam kar diya app ne tou. matlab app ka kehan tha kay agar aisa htoa to nabowat ka maqsad he khtam hogaya, app kay liyay or asan lafzo mei samjhaoo kay app ka khena tha kay agar nabi kay qareebi lgo he bigar gayee (matlab ashab) to nabowat ka maqsad he kahtam hogaya or app ko samjhnay kay lyiay kay nahi nabi ka maqsad aisee bataoo say nahi khatam hota naqi ka maqsad boaht bara hota hia app ko misal i thee kay musa key to aksariyat qom gayee key pooja karnay lagi thee to kiya mosa key nabowat ka maqsad kahtam hogaya.. woh samjhaya to app ko ulta woh bhee yueh laga jaisay mei deen kay khilaf baat kar raha hoon. Yehi Hazart Fatimah(R.A) kay moutalbe wali.App ne tou ahadith ka b ikaar kar diya.Quaarn ka b kar diya.Khuli ankhoon see daikh kar b. yehee kuch mei app kay baray mei bhee sooch raha hoon kay quran loggo kay tanz karnay par kay nahi key aulad nahi hai keh raha hia hum khair-e-kaseer diengay app usko khair-e-kasiir ko ummat samjh rahi hai. or kaseer ka matlab to janti hongi app or bata dein kay ummat mei aksariyat kinkey hai naik loggo key ya buray logggoo key??? kaisa change?cant guess?waise b Yahan per tone ko app na notice karin.meri tone tou aisi hi hai.app meri baat notice kar lien.Unko Allah ne unkay baap k baad zameen per khalifa banaya.Nabuwat di saath main khilafat di.so khilafat koon deta hai ??Allah!!!poori terha pehly Quraan ki ayat parh lien. PHir app nay poori baat ingore kar di shayad app ko jawab nahi milla mei kehr aha hoon aksar scholars nay ap kay scholars nay yehee tarjuma kiya hai or app phir wohee nabowat key baat karay ja rahi hai issay kehta hai stubborn hona, sub scholars nay mufasiro nay yehee tafseer key ahi kay uduniyavi maal mila app nabowat key baat karey ja rahi hai matlab nabowat khdua rishteaydari dekh kar deta hai schracter dekh kar nahi... tsk tsk.. seriously app soocho kay keh kiya rahi... Kiya khuda risthey dari dekh kar nabowat deta hai kay beta hai nabowat dey do. ya chracter dekh kar to nabowat milli wirsa mei ya duniyavi jaidad??? App kay ullama nay kaha hia shayad app ziada ilm rakhi hongi unsay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu_Hanzala 2 Posted May 7, 2006 (edited) Kissi insaan ko musalman tasleem karna eik alag baat hai, or uskey khidmaat alag, yes unko muslaman mantay hai, lekin unki khidmat ko nahi matnay kay unhonay koie bohat ziadak hidmat key hoon islam key. Or jaha tak app ka kehna hai kay ariba nay achay andaz mei ajwab dey diya hai to unkay jawabat kay baray mei jo likha hai mei nay woh app nay ignore kar diya. Doosray baat shorro houie thee thawheed say yes mei bohat cheezai laya lekin app nay yeh nahi dekha kay doosro nay kiya baat key thee jiskay jawab mei .. .mei doosri cheezai laya, app kay sath nahi laya.. ariba or sobe say jo discussion ho raha hai usmei doosri cheezai laya. Toheed ki baat tou khatam ker di aap k colleague ne ye keh ker k Imaam Khumaini ne sahi fermaya hai.......!!!! agar aap ko yaad ho tou is Sawaal sey pehley bhi main ne oon sahab ki Hadith post kerney k jawaab main kuch sawaal poochay thay, tou aap ne uss ko skip ker diya or beech main is discussion ko ley aaye.....tou agar aap oos per discussion nahi kerna chahtay tou as u wish , hum isi ko ley ker baat aagay berrhatay hain....or ye discussion bohot lambi hai ,lihaza main is ko ek saath post kerna munaasib nahi samajhta or na he waqt is baat ki jazat deta hai ..... Beherhaal aap ne in Mubarak Hastion per tanqeed ki hai tou ab main is ki root sey he baat aagay berrhata hoon..... Tehqeeq or Tanqeed main sab sey pehley baat tou Islami Usool main ye paish-e-nazar rakhni hai k apni Energy aur time oos cheez ki tehqeeq per sarf na kiya jaaye jis ka koi faaida Deen or Dunya main na ho, khaali tehqeeq baraaye tehqeeq Islam main ek fazool amal hai..jis sey perhaiz kerney ki RasoolAllah SalALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM ne barri takeed fermaayi hai...khusoosan jab aisi tehqeeq or tanqeed ho jis sey dunya main fitnay or jhagrray paida hon..ye aisi he tanqeed hogi jaisa k ek baita apnay baap k baaray main ye tehqeeq kerney beth jaaye k main jis baap ka baita kehlata hoon ,kiya waaqee main ussi ka baita hoon?? or oos k liye apni mother ki zindagi per research or tehqeeq ka zor kharch kerey! doosri shakhsiaton per tanqeed k liye Islam ne kuch Aadilana or hakeemana usool or hudood muqarrar kiye hain or in sey azad ho ker jis ka jee chahay ,jo jee chahay or jis k khilaaf jee chahay bolay or likha kerey, is ki Islam ne hergiz ijazat nahi di......yahan oos ki tafseelaat bayan kerney ka moqa nahi , Hadith ki Jarah -o-Taadeel ki kitaabon main tafseel k saath is per behes ki gayi hai.....Lekin Europe sey import ki gayi research naam he bay qaida or azaad tanqeed ka hai..adab ,ehteraam,or hudood ki riaayat is main ek bey maana cheez hai......afsos hai k is zamanay k bohot sey ahl-e-qalam bhi is naye tarz-e-tanqeed sey mutaasir ho gaye! Islaaf-e-Ummat or Deen k imaamo per tou ye mashq-e-sitam bohot zamany sey jaari thee ab berrhtey berrhtey Sahaba Karaam (RA) tak pohonch gayee........apnay aap ko Ahl-e-Sunnat kehlaanay waalay bohot sey ahl-e-qalam ne apni research or Ilmi tawanayi ka behtrin masraf is ko qaraar dey diya k Sahaba Karaam (RA) ki azeem shakhsiaton per Jarah or tanqeed ki mashq ki jaaye!! Baaz Hazraat ne ek taraf Hazrat Mo'aawiyah or oos k baitay Yazeed ki taayid or himayat ka naam ley ker Hazrat Ali or un ki Olaad bal k pooray Bani Haashim ko hadaf-e-tanqeed bana dala,or is main Sahaba Karaam (RA) k adad or ehtaraam tou kiya,Islam k aadilaana or hakeemana zaabta-e-tanqeed ki bhi saari hudood ko torr dala...is k bilmuqaabil doosray baaz Hazraat ne qalam uthaya tou Hazrat Mo'aawiyah Hazrat Usman or oon k saathion per isi tarah ki jarah or tanqeed sey kaam liya........ Nayi Taleeem paanay walay nojawaan jo Uloom-e-Deen or adaab-e-deen sey naawaaqif Europe sey import ki gayi nayi tehzeeb or tehqeeq k dildadah hain, wo in dono sey bohot mutaassir huey or oon k halqon main Sahaba Karaam (RA) per zabaan daraazi honay lagi!or Sahaba Karam (RA) jo ummat or RasoolAllah SalALLAHO ALAIHE WASSALAM k dermiyaan wasta hain,un ko dunya k aam political leaders ki fehrist main rakkha jaanay laga, jo iqtidaar ki jang kertey hain or apnay iqtidaar k liye nations ko gumraah kertey hain...zaahir hai k Allah na karay agar Musalmaan Sahaba Karam (RA) k aitemaad ko he kho bethey tou phir na Quran per aitemaad rehta hai , na hadith per, na Islam k kisi usool per..is ka nateeja khuli beyDeeni k ilawa or kia ho sakta hai??? Curios aaap ne khul ker merey sawaal ka jawaab nahi diya.....agar wo musalmaan thay tou phir aap Hazraat unn ka naam tak lena gawara kiun nahi kertey???or jab unn ko utna he bura samajhtay hain tou phir Quran ki koi haisyat nahi rehti ,naoozubillah,kion k Quran ko sab sey pehley Hazrat Abbu Bakar k dour-e-khilafat main jama kiya gaya, uss ki wajah sab jaantay hain k jang-e-yamama main bohot sey Hufaaz-e-karam shaheed ho gaye thay tou Quran ko jama kerney ki zarurat paish aayi, or phir Hazrat Usman k dour main Quran ki compilation hui ,kion k uss waqt Quran ko kayee lehjo main perrha jaanay laga thaa, tou unhon ne Quran ko quraish ki zaban main Qiamat tak k liye mehfooz ker diya, is liye k Quran nazil he quraish k lehjey main thaa......itni dhair saari khidmaat sey nazrein churaa lena theek nahi.......... anyway ,its time for Namaz ..i will be right back later to continue Edited May 8, 2006 by Hanzala Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu_Hanzala 2 Posted May 7, 2006 Pehli baat ye hai k RasoolAllah SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k aqwaal or aamaal ko jis Sahabi ne suna ya dekha hai os ko Rasool Allah SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k hukum k mutaabiq Allah ki imaanat qarar diya hai jis ka ummat ko pohonchana unn ki zimmay daari thee.....Aap SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k hukum k baad kisi Sahaabi ki kya majaal thee k Aap SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k kalmaat tayyebaat ya apni aankh sey dekhey huey aa'maal ki poori hifazat na kerta or ummat ko pohonchanay ka ehtimaam na kerta....is k ilawa Nabi Akram SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k saath jo Sahaba Karaam ki mohabbat thee,uss ko sirf musalmaan nahi kuffaar bhi jaantay,or hairat k saath aiteraaf kertey hain k Sahaba Karaam (RA) Aap SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k wuzu ka istimaal shuda paani bhi zameen per girnay nahi detey thay,apnay chehron or seenay per maltay thay,oon k liye agar Hadith ki hifazat or tableegh k ahkaam na bhi aaye hotay tab bhi, unn sey ye kaisey tasawwur kiya ja sakta thaa k ye log Taleemaat-e-Rasool,or Aap SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM ki ahaadith ki hifazat ka ehtemaam na kertey........or oos per mazeed ye k Aap SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM ne Hadith ki hifaazat k ahkaam jaari fermaa diye , isi liye 1 laakh sey zaayid ye farishta sifat muqaddas jamaat sirf RasoolALLAH SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k aqwaal or aa'maal ki hifazat k liye sargaram ho gayi Poori ummat ka is baat per ittefaaq hai k Sahaba Karaam (RA) k derjaat or oon main paish aanay waalay ikhtilifaat ka faisla koi aam tareekhi masla nahi, bal k Ma'aarifat-e-Sahaba tou hadith ka ek ehem juz hai jaisa k Muqaddama-e-Asaaba main Hafiz ibn-e-hajar ne or Muqaddama-e-Isti'aab main Hafiz ibn-e-Abdul Barr ne wazahat sey bayan fermaya hai! Sahaba Karaam (RA) jis muqaddas jamaat ka naam hai wo ummat k aam afraad ki tarah nahi, wo RasoolAllah SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM or ummat k dermyaan ek muqadas wasta honay ki wajah sey ek khaas muqaam rakhtay hain, ye muqaam in ko Quran-o-Hadith ki nusoos or tasreehaat ka ata kiya hua hai,or isi liye is per Ummat ka Ijmaa hai....is ko tareekh ki sahih o saqeem riwaayat main gum nahi kiya jaa sakta...or agar koi Riwayat zakheera-e-Hadith main bhi Sahaba Karam (RA) k is muqaam ko majrooh kerti ho tou wo bhi Quran or Hadith ki waazeh nusoos or Ijmaa-e-Ummat k muqaablay main matrook ho gi!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu_Hanzala 2 Posted May 7, 2006 Quran Sahaba Karam (RA) k baaray main kiya kehta hai?? Aayein ab oos per nazar daaltay hain..... "Tum behtreen Ummat ho jo logo k (Faidah or Islaah) k liye paida ki gayi hai" "or Hum ne tum ko ek aisi Jamaat bana diya hai jo (her pehloo) sey nihayat aitedaal per hai, taa k tum (mukhaalif) logo k muqaablay main gawah ho" in dono Aayaat k asal mukhaatib pehley Sahaba Karaam (RA) hain ,baaqi ummat bhi apnay apnay tarz-e-amal k mutaabiq is main daakhil ho sakti hai, lekin Sahaba Karaam (RA) ka in dono aayaat ka sahih mesdaaq hona Mufassireen or Muhaddiseen k ittefaaq sey saabit hai...in main Sahaba Karaam (RA) ka Nabi AKram SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k baad tamaam insaano sey afzal or adal or Siqaa hona waazih tor per saabit hota hai... "Jis din k Allah Tala Nabi (SalALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM)ko or jo musalmaan (Deen ki roo sey) unn k saath hain , unn ko ruswaa nahi kerey ga" "Or jo Muhaajirin or Ansaar (Eemaan laanay main sab sey) saabiq or muqaddam hain (Or baqia ummat main )jitnay log ikhlaas k saath un k saath un k pairoo hain ,Allah unn sab sey raazi hua or wo sab Oos (ALLAH ) sey raazi huey or Allah Tala ne unn k liye aisey baagh muhayya ker rakkhay hain jin k neechay nehrein jaari hongi" is aayat main Sahaba karaam (RA) k 2 tabqay bayaan fermaaye hain , ek saabiqeen or awwaleen ka ,doosray baad main eemaan laanay waalon ka or dono tabqaat k mutaliq ye ailaan ker diya gaya hai k ALlah unn sab sey raazi hain or wo Allah sey raazi hain..oon k jannat ka muqaam muqarrar hai jis main tamaam Sahaba Karaam (RA ) daakhil hain....Muhaajireen or Anssaar main sey Saabiqeen Awwaleen kon log hain , is ki tafseer main Ibn-e-Kaseer ne Tafseer main or Ibn-e-Abdul Barr ne Muqaddama Isteeaab main asnaad k saath dono k aqwaal naqal kiye hain.....ek qol ye hai k Sabiqeen Awwaleen wo hazraat hain jinhon ne RasoolALlah SalALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k saath dono Qiblo yaani Baitul Maqdas or Baitullah ki taraf namaz perhi ho....ye qol Abbu Musa Ash'ari or Hasan Basri ka hai.......... doosra Qol ye hai k jo log Bait-e-Rizwaan main shareek huey wo Saabiqeen Awwaleen main sey hain.....ye qol Imam Sha'bi sey riwayat kiya gaya hai!! Hadith main Hazrat Jaabir bin Abdullah (RA) sey riwayat kiya gaya hai k Rasool Allah SalALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM ne irshaad fermaya : "nahi daakhil hoga jahannum main koi shakhs jis ne darakht k neechay bay'et ki hai " beherhaal Saabiqeen Awwaleen khuaah Qiblatain ki taraf namaz main shareek honay waalay hon ya Bait-e-Rizwan k shareek or un k baad Sahaabiyat ka sharf haasil kerney waalay Tamaam Sahaba Karaam (RA) k liye Allah Tala ne apni kaamil raza or jannat ki abadi naimat ka waada or ailaan fermaa diya hai or Ibn-e-Abdul Barr ne Muqaddama Isteeaab main ye he Aayat naqal kerney k baad likha hai k : "Allah jis sey raazi ho gaya ,phir oos sey kabhi naraaz nahi hoga inshaALlah ........" wait for the next post... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu_Hanzala 2 Posted May 7, 2006 Wah wah.yeh nahwi aur sarfi behas parhne ka bohut maza aya.yummmyy.Jazak Allah ariba>> sis abhi tou discussion apni iftitaahi lamhaat main hai...aagay aagay dekhiye ,hota hai kia: ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catlover 0 Posted May 7, 2006 ???!!!!wazz goin on here????!!! koi bataie ga k sach kia hai ????!!!! :s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaman_Eman 0 Posted May 7, 2006 ???!!!!wazz goin on here????!!! koi bataie ga k sach kia hai ????!!!!:s 184424[/snapback] why not...... Before posting this stuff I would like to say.... * These beliefs are fully authentic by Shia’s own scholars. *Its not my personal effort, I get this info from various sites. *Members what I am going to show you details some of the fundamental differences between Muslims, the Shiites and the truth about what the Shi's think of us Sunni Muslims. *And Lastly,Hanzala, Ariba, n curious one SORRY if I interrupt you by this post. The existence of numerous sects - each one claiming to be rightly guided - is a predetermined fact which the Noble Qur'an makes reference to. Allah Ta'ala declares, 'And if your Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind a single unified group, but they will continue to dispute and differ' (Hud 118). Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'Verily this nation (of Muslims) will be divided into seventy three sects. All of them would be in the fire except one.' When asked which one, he replied, 'The one that adheres to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of my companions.' (Abu Dawood). ISLAM, AND SHIAISM STATUS OF THE QUR'AN Islam The Qur'an in its present form is authentic, complete and protected from any distortions upto the day of Qiyaamat. Shiaim The Qur'an is incomplete and distorted. The original Qur'an had 17,000 verses. Hence 2/3 of the Qur'an is missing. The original Qur'an, compiled by Hadhrat Ali (Radhiallaahu Anhu) would be brought back by Imaam Mahdi. FINALITY OF PROPHETHOOD Islam Nabi Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) was the final Nabi, through whom Islam gained completion and through whom prophethood was sealed and Wahy (revelation) ended. Shiaim The Imaam is a successor to the Nabi appointed by God. He is infallible and excels all Prophets, besides Nabi Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) in dignity. They possess the knowledge of the past and the future. They possess authority of death. They are divinely protected against error. THE KALIMA Islam There is no object of worship except Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. Shiaism Same Kalimah with the following addition: 'Salvation is only attained by granting allegiance to Ahlul Bayt (the immediate household of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and by disowning their enemies i.e. Abu Bakr, Uthmaan and Umar and all non-Shias). PILLARS OF ISLAM Islam Imaan, Salaat, Zakaat, Sawm and Hajj Shia Salaat, Sawm, Hajj, Zakaat, Khums - 20% tax on profits, Jihaad, enjoining good, preventing evil, Love for the godly ones and hatred for the evil ones i.e. the Sahaaba. STATUS OF SAHAABA Islam The companions of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) have been praised by Allah Ta'ala Himself in the Noble Qur'an. It is therefore not permissible to criticise them or undermine their integrity. Shiaim All the companions became Kaafir except the immediate household of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and three other Sahaaba after his demise. Ali (Radhiallaahu Anhu) is considered by some as a vicegerent (Someone appointed by a ruler as an administrative deputy), others regard him as a prophet, whilst another group regard him as god. SOME STRANGE SHIITE BELIEFS **The wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) The Shiite's bear the same enmity and malice for the wives of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), as they bear against the Sahaaba. They are frequently referred to as hypocrites and unbeliever. ***Kitmaan and Taqiyya (Holy Hypocrisy) Among the fundamental teachings are kitmaan and taqiyya (to conceal one's real faith and belief). Imaam Jaafar Sadiq is purpoted to have said to Sulaymaan bin Khalid, 'O Sulaymaan! You follow a religion that whoever will hide, God will bestow honour on him and whoever will reveal it and publicise it, he will be disgraced by God.' He further states, 'Among ten parts of religion, nine lie in Taqiyya. He who does not observe taqiyya is devoid of faith.' ***MUT'A: Temporary marriage A 'Hadith' attributed to Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) reads, 'Whosoever does Mut'a once reaches the rank of Imaam Husian, whoever does it twice reaches the rank of Imaam Hassan, whoever does it thrice reaches the rank of Hadhrat Ali and whoever does it four times attains my rank. Another purported 'Hadith' states, 'Anyone doing Mut'a with a believing woman is like one who has made the journey to the Ka'abah 70 times.' Khomeini's view regarding prophethood, 'Every prophet came to establish justice on earth. His aim was to establish justice but he was not successful. The same is the position of the seal of prophets who came to reform human society and establish justice but he failed during his lifetime.' (Ittihatwa-yakjihati). He further states, 'It is a necessary principle of our faith that our Imaam have ranks that exceed those of close angels and the appointed messengers.' (Al-Hukmatul Islaamiyyah). >>>>>>>>> Is Shia Kafir? ( Well…Hanzala has been described mostly points in his very first post, anyhow I will repeat few of them to continue my reply) 1. "Bad'ah" ALLAH tells a lie. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.) 2. All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270) 3. There are seventeen thousand Ayah in real Qur'an. (Al Shafi, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 616) 4. Sahabah (R.H) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Asool Kaafi, Page No. 420) 5. All the people rejected Islam after the death of the Prophet except three. Miqdad, Abu Zar and Salman Farsi. (Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 134) 6. "Difference between ALLAH and Ali". (Jila-ul-Ayoun, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 66) 7. We are the eyes of the God in his creature and the final authority in all human beings. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 145) 8. No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228) 9. Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a) could not recite Kalma at the time of his death. (Israr-e-Muhammad, Page No. 211) 10. "Changes in Qur'an for Drinker Khulafa-e-Rashideen". (Translation Of Quran Majeed by Maqbool Hussain Dehlevi, Page No. 479) 11. Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258) 12. Abdullah Ibn-e-Saba maintained the indispensability of Imamat and claimed that Ali was the true lord. (Anwaar-e-Naumania, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 234) 13. According to Shia's nothing can remain hidden from the Imams, they have a complete knowledge of past, present and future. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 260) 14. Ayesha was an infidel women. (Hayat-ul-Quloob, Vol. No. 2, Page No. 726) 15. The present Qur'an is abridged where as the Original Qur'an is kept by Imam Mehdi. (Hazaar Tumhari Das Hamari, Page No. 553) 16. "An acceptance of separate Kalma". (Asool-e-Shariat Fee Aqaid-ul-Shia't, Page No. 423) Now my dear Readers you all only decide what should be the label of such people who are still propagating their false beliefs. >>>>> WHAT IS THE AQEEDAH OF SHIAS? "Allaah often lies and does mistakes." (USOOL-E-KAAFI, page #328, yaqoob kulaini, vol 1). "We (shias) do not worship such a God who gives authority to rascals like Yazid, Mu'awiyyah and Uthmaan." (Kashful Asraar - 107 - Khomeni..) "The Imams posses all the knowledge granted to angels, prophets and messengers." (Al- Kulaini. AL- KAAFI, p.255) "The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their choice. " (Al- Kulaini. AL- KAAFI, p.258) "The person who says that the present Quran is complete is a liar because the “complete Quran†was compiled by Hazrat Ali" (Fasl-ul-khitaab fee tahreef kitaab rab-ul- arbab, page #4, Noori Tibri). "When Imaam Mehdi comes he will bring with him the real and original Quran." (Ahsan-ul-maqaal, page #336, safdar Husain najfi). "Neither we believe the Allah nor the Prophet of the God whose khalifah is Abu Bakr." (Anwar-ul-nomania, page #278). "All Prophets are beggar at the doorstep of Ali." (khalqat-e-norania, page #201, Talib Husain karpalwi). "These shia says Ali said.......I am the first and I am the last. I am the manifest and I am the hidden and I am the heir of earth." (Rijaal Kashsi . 138. India Print.) >>>>>>>> What the Shi'ites say about AHLUS SUNNAH Muslims? The Shi'ites say this regarding Sunni Muslims "Although Allaah, the Exalted, has not created a creature worse than a dog, yet a Nasbi (i.e. A Sunni) is worse than even a dog." (Haqqul Yakeen (Persian) Vol 2, P. 516) Here the Shi'ites have said that Sunni Muslims are worse than Dogs! The Shi'ites say that we will never go to Paradise! "It is contained in several sources of information that they, (the assumed Imams of Shias) said: 'Should every angel that Allaah, the Exalted and Gracious, has created, every prophet that Allaah has appointed, every truthful martyr, (collectively) pray to Allaah, the Exalted and Gracious, to release a Nasbi (a Sunni) from the Hell, Allaah would never release him." (Haqqul-Yaqeen, (Arabic), Vol. 2 P. 192) This is what the Shi'ites really think about us!!! They say that if anyone who is a Sunni Muslim will go to Hell!!! Don't these Shi'ites know what they are saying?? May Allah Ta'ala protect our Imaan and save us from being part of the deviant groups, Aameen. now...any confusion???? P.S >> Ariba n Hanzala really very sincere n nice effort JazakALlah Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 7, 2006 (edited) Toheed ki baat tou khatam ker di aap k colleague ne ye keh ker k Imaam Khumaini ne sahi fermaya hai.......!!!! Nahi tauheed key baat mei nay khatam nahi key, asal mei aqpp samjhay nahi, app say tauheed per he discussion ho raha hai app usper he jari rakhai, lekin ariba sobe nay kuch or batain key thee jubkay mei pehlay he keh chooka tha kay eik topic lekar challai to unko jawab diya tha app baqi cheezai abhi chorrai jo eik discussion shorro kiya tha usper he qaim rahey takay doosray kuch beech emi bolay ya nahi hum to kuch tareqay ka discussion kar sakai. Issi liyay mei Amman eman ka jawab nahi donga kiyonkay phir baat boaht door nikal ajeygi app bhee us mei shamil hongay jubkay app say baat tawheed kay oper shoror houie thee is liyay app dosoor say jo meri baat ho rahi ahi usko chorrai or jo topic shoror kiya tha usper he qayem rahei. Lekin bus eik side note kay taur pay mei app ko eik baat bata doon jo shayad app kay ilm mei nahi lekni shia bhee sahaba karab ka sunnio say bhee ziada ehtram kartay hai or unko bohat ooncha kirdar walal matnay hai han lekin jinko app sahaba key fehrist mei shamil kartay hai unko shia us fehjrista mei shamil nahi kartay? Waisay eik sawal hai apop say simple sa key app kay nazdeek sahaba kethay kissay hai ?? Sahabi hai kon?? bus yeh bata deyjayga pls lekin eyh eik side note kay taru per warna apps ay asal gutftugo tawheed per he jari raheygi. Edited May 7, 2006 by Curious One Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu_Hanzala 2 Posted May 8, 2006 Issi liyay mei Amman eman ka jawab nahi donga kiyonkay phir baat boaht door nikal ajeygi app bhee us mei shamil hongay jubkay app say baat tawheed kay oper shoror houie thee is liyay app dosoor say jo meri baat ho rahi ahi usko chorrai or jo topic shoror kiya tha usper he qayem rahei. mera khyaal ye hai k aap Shia mazhab ko represent he nahi ker rahay, aap ghaaliban Shia or Sunni k dermiyaan waalay mazhab per chal rahay hain....jab k hum yahan per Shia k wo asal Aqaaid jo wo awaam k saamnay laanay sey katraatay hain ,un per baat ker rahay hain.........or mera khyaal ye hai k aap is topic main participate na kerein coz to the point baat ek bhi nahi ki aap ne....wo baatein jo AAman_Emaan ne post ki hain ,iss sey pehley bhi isi post main hum un per baat ker chukay hain or aaj tak uss ka koi jawaab nahi mil saka...or na kabhi mil sakta hai Shia hazraat ki jaanib sey! Waisay eik sawal hai apop say simple sa key app kay nazdeek sahaba kethay kissay hai ?? Sahabi hai kon?? bus yeh bata deyjayga pls lekin eyh eik side note kay taru per warna apps ay asal gutftugo tawheed per he jari raheygi. Sahaabi ya Sahaba Ummat ki wo Farishta Sifat jamaat hai k jis ne Haalat-e-Eemaan main Nabi Akram SaALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM ko dekha ho,or Nabi Akram SaLALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k wisaal k baad bhi wo mertey dam tak Islam per qaaim rahi...thats the simple answer of ur question.... aap k is reply ki baaqi baaton ka jawaab dena i think zaruri is liye nahi hai kion k wo off topic discussion hai....... ok humain aap ka jawaab ka intizaar rahay ga ,unn baaton ka line by line reply chahiye jin Aqaaid ka hum ne about toheed yahan ziker kiya.......waisey agar aap ne toheed ki baat khatam nahi ki tou Jehan_Shah ne tou ye keh ker Allah ko na maannay ka iqraar ker he liya hai k haan Khumaini ne sahi fermaya hai...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ariba 0 Posted May 8, 2006 App say jiss hadith kay baray mei baat ho rahi hia uska tarjuma bhee app key hi kitaboo say kiya tha upni taraf say nahi kiya, lekin appk o woh manzoor nahi. Or agar app dekhna chahti hai to google pay jayee sahi bukhari search karein or kissi bhee site say dkeh lei app ko hadith bhee mill jayegi or uska tarjuma bhee, phri bhee app khod tarjuma karna chahai to it jsut shows that you are being stubborn and do not wanna accept what majority of muslim ummah has accepted. Lolzz Iam stubbron?App ko pata hai app b usko accept nahin kar rahy jisko ummat accept kar chuki hai.main tou haq per hoon aur haq ko kin choron? Main kiun search karoon.mujhay rarabic ati hai aur yeh b pata hai k kis terha tarjama karna hai. Iss main hu zameer 2 taraf lout sakti hai.so 2 terha see tarjama hoo sakta hai.main ne b apko aik azeem scholor ka hi tarjuma paish kiya tha.app ne nahin man na tha tou aiteraaz laga diya. Aub lagaya hi hai tou safi jawab b apko zaoor mily ga.dont worry. App mujay yeh bata dein k jab iss jaiedad ki haqdar sirf sayyada fatimah nahin thein.kaee aur loog b thay tou moutalbah sirf apki taraf see hi kun aya? Phir agar ya hua b tou App ka sath kisis ne kun nahin diya?App ka haq tha tou app chup hoo kar kiun baith gaien. Baqi doosra ji scholors k tarjuma hai uska jawab meri next post main mil jay ga. With ref n objections so be ready. Bus app key yeh baat mujhey sub say ziada passand ayee boaht passand ayee seriuosly. To ab pls app is baat pay yaqeen karei pakka aqeeda rakhai. App kay alfaz hai kay "Quraan main ata hai k Allah jisko apne bundon main see chahty hain khilafat ata karty hain pls ispay poora aqeeda rakh lei or mujhey research karkay bata dien kay Hz Abu Bakar kay khalifa bannay ka kiay tareeqa tha, ijmaa houa tha shorra houa tha ya bus khuda nay bana diay tha???? Pls sirif app yeh research karkay batain or jo khod app nay likha hai ussay milla lei plsss... serouisly dekhai app shio say mujhsay jitna chahee nafrat kar lei... lekin pls jo baat app ko khod samjh ayee hai jo khod quran mei appko nazar ayee hai usko manti bhee hai to thori research karein or dekhai kay ap kay scholars kiya kethay hai kay khalifa kasiay bannay hz Abu Bakar. Pls app yeh kaam zaroor karein. Ji shukarya apka.Anayat apki .Main tou keh hi sahe baat rahi hoon bus app man ne ko tayar hi nahin hain.;D Allah hi sab kuch karty hain aur asbab b iss k paidah karty hain.Allah apne wade k khilaaf nahin karty naa tou pehly no. per hazart Abu bakar(R.A),doosre per hazart Umer(R.A),teesry per Hazart usman(R.A) aur fourth per hazart Ali(R.A)yehi Allah ko manzoor tha aur aisa hi hua.aaub koe iss k khilaaf kehta hai tou kehta phiry Allah tou bundoon ki batoon see baynayaz hain. Saqefa banu saeda ko janty hain?wahin per Allah ne likha tha k Hazart Abu bakar iss majlas main khalifa baien gay.Aur yeh b Allah ko pata tha koon pehly unki bait ki saadat hasil kare ga. Islam main rishty dair ki koe aihmiyat nahin hai.yeh sab faqar jhalat main thay.islam ne inko mata diya.khilafat ka sahe haqdar wohi tha jo sab see zaidah moutqi tha.aur usko hi mil kar rahi jis ki iqteda main Hazoor(saw) ne b namaz parh kar bata diya tha isharatun k yeh mere baad sab see behtreen insan hain. To app manti hai kay us daur mei munafiq bhee mojodo thay?? matlab sirif is waja say kay koie sahabi tha uska ehtram karna ghalat hai jub tak chracter nahi dekh lei, matlab saray sahabi to sitaroo key manind ho nahi saktay kay kisis key bhee paravi karoo. Doosray ibne saba ka humari kitab ka keh rahi ahi likha hai but kiya likha hai yeh bhee to bataye.. Ji mounafiq tou thay hi.Jo haq ko daikh kar b haq nahin manty.Dil main asal ko chupaty hain aur zahir kuch karty hain.taquiya b iski aik misal hi hai. Baqi app with ref pichly page per daikh lein.Ba asani mil jaye ga k main ne kiya likha hua hai. Aur mind it sahabi sahabi hain aur mounafiq mounafiq.kisi sahabi ko kuch kehne see pehly sooch lije ga.ok? Ab app key upni baat bhee app ko samjhani paraygi, app ka yeh kehna tha kay yehee kuch mei app kay baray mei bhee sooch raha hoon kay quran loggo kay tanz karnay par kay nahi key aulad nahi hai keh raha hia hum khair-e-kaseer diengay app usko khair-e-kasiir ko ummat samjh rahi hai. or kaseer ka matlab to janti hongi app or bata dein kay ummat mei aksariyat kinkey hai naik loggo key ya buray logggoo key??? Lagta hai app kafi tang a chukay hain?Kiya baat hai abhi see thak gay hain? App b tou apni baat ka khud hi ikar kar rahy hain. Pehli baat tou yh k apko humaray Quraan ki tafseer ka koe ikhteyar hi nahin hai.app ko agar tafseer karni hi hai tou app pehly yeh maan lien k yeh quraan barhaq hai aur poora hai aur waise ka waisa hi hai jaisa nazil hua.phir main apki khair-e-kaseer ki tafser ko man ne per ghor karoon gi. Doosri baat yeh k App sayyada ko to kahir-e-kaseer man rahy hain aur aik jamat ko nahin maan rahy.yeh kiya baat hui?jamat aik see tou bari hai naa. Umaat main see sirf aik baiti nabi ki,aik biwi aik damad ,doo nawase aur 3 ya 4 loog sahabi.bas yehi khair-e-kaseer hai? PHir app nay poori baat ingore kar di shayad app ko jawab nahi milla mei kehr aha hoon aksar scholars nay ap kay scholars nay yehee tarjuma kiya hai or app phir wohee nabowat key baat karay ja rahi hai issay kehta hai stubborn hona, sub scholars nay mufasiro nay yehee tafseer key ahi kay uduniyavi maal mila app nabowat key baat karey ja rahi hai matlab nabowat khdua rishteaydari dekh kar deta hai schracter dekh kar nahi... tsk tsk.. seriously app soocho kay keh kiya rahi... Kiya khuda risthey dari dekh kar nabowat deta hai kay beta hai nabowat dey do. ya chracter dekh kar to nabowat milli wirsa mei ya duniyavi jaidad??? App kay ullama nay kaha hia shayad app ziada ilm rakhi hongi unsay Ignor nahin ki apki baat.apko hi lag raha hai. main jawab doon gi naa apko. Yeh nabouwat wali baat!! Zahir hai k nabi wohi bane ga jo character l lihaz see is qabil hoo ga.hai naa?lakin baat yeh hai k quraan zikar sirf unn nabiyoon ka kar rah hai jinkay baity b nabi huay.Nabi ka ahl Quraan ne kaha hi un logon ko hai jo amal ka aitebaar see achy thay.warna hazart noah(A.s) ka qissa parh lein app. Agar yeh baat nahin thi,duniya ki bat thi tou phir kiun nahin zikar kiya iss ka. Baqi batien aik taraf,App bataien k hazoor(saw) ne jo farmaya k nabiyoon ka maal sadqa hota hai kiya apko inn ayat ka ilm na tha(naouz bi Allah).ya phir koe aur wajah ya phir app iss ka koe shafi jawab day dein. Meri 2 3 batoon ka jawab app ne nahin diya.plz uka jawab day dein.ignore nahin karna.ok? 12 imam per behas b hoo gi alag see.yahan main ne sirf ref diya tha.kisi book main likha hai 2 yr ki age main cave main chaly gay,kisi main 5 yr hai kisi main6 hai.kahin koe naam likha hua hai unka kahin koe.uss per b baat hoo gi lakin abhi app mere question aur Hanzal kay questions kay ans kar dein. 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ariba 0 Posted May 8, 2006 Aaman_Eman>Jazak Allah for such a nice n to the point research.realy nice to see u here!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 8, 2006 mera khyaal ye hai k aap Shia mazhab ko represent he nahi ker rahay, aap ghaaliban Shia or Sunni k dermiyaan waalay mazhab per chal rahay hain....jab k hum yahan per Shia k wo asal Aqaaid jo wo awaam k saamnay laanay sey katraatay hain ,un per baat ker rahay hain.........or mera khyaal ye hai k aap is topic main participate na kerein coz to the point baat ek bhi nahi ki aap ne....wo baatein jo AAman_Emaan ne post ki hain ,iss sey pehley bhi isi post main hum un per baat ker chukay hain or aaj tak uss ka koi jawaab nahi mil saka...or na kabhi mil sakta hai Shia hazraat ki jaanib sey! App ko jawab shayad he millay cos jo batian unmei hai unmei say aksar jo hai woh itni jahilana hai kay woh deserve nahi akrti kay unka jawab diya jayee. Jiasya yeh kay app samjhtay hai shio ka aqeeda hai allah jhoot bolta hai, ya yeh kay Quran mei pakistan ka zikr hai ... yeh sub bachoo walay aitraazat hai jo lagayee jatya hai shio per jin ka haqeeqat say koie talloq nahi hia. Baz batain hai jo sahi hai bilkol such hai lekin unko samjhnay ka eik tareeqa hota hia app nay jo aitraaz lagaye ehia woh yeh jannay kay liyay nahi kay shia aisa kiyo aqeeda rakhtay hai bulkay is liyay kay unsay app sabit karna chahtay hai kay shia kafir hai kyionkay app nay upnay taur pay yeh pehlay say sooch rakkha hai kay jo aisa karay woh kafir hia, shia kartay ai is iyay shia kafir. Sahaabi ya Sahaba Ummat ki wo Farishta Sifat jamaat hai k jis ne Haalat-e-Eemaan main Nabi Akram SaALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM ko dekha ho,or Nabi Akram SaLALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM k wisaal k baad bhi wo mertey dam tak Islam per qaaim rahi...thats the simple answer of ur question.... Again sawal sun kar app chir jayeignay lekin sirif app key sooch or aqeeda jannay kay liyay pooch raha hoon kay agar koie aisa insaan ho jissnay halat emaan mei rasool ka dekha or martay dum tak dil mei emaan raha lekin amal kay lehaz say bilkol kafir tha, farz kar lei kay sharabi tha, bohat gunnahgar tha to kiya uska ehtraam bhee karna chaiyay yeh sooch kar key sahabi hai is iyay usper bhee 100 feesad yaqeen kar lena chaiya (yeh nahi kahiyga kay aisa nahi ho sakta kyionkay app kay mahzab mei to nabi masoom nahi hota to sahabi kaisay ho sakta hia. I sliyay mumkin to bilkol hai. App nay mujhey to keh diya kay mei sunni shia kay beech key rah iktheyar kar rah haoon.. mei app ko batata hoon asal mei shia or sunni mei farq kiya hia or woh farq app logog say bardasht nahi houa to loggo nay sio per das hazar ultay seeddhay ilzaam laganay shoor kar diya... Sub say bara farq hai kay shia appkay pehlay teen khulafa ko nahi mantay bulkay naik insaan bhee nahi samjhtya or unky pass upni riwyat hai history mojood hia jo iss key buniyad hai... app khaeingay kay jhooti history hai lekin asal mei app nay upni ktiabo ka baghor mutaila nahi kiya warna aisa nahi kethay, (is forum mei link post karna manna hia is liyay mei app ko or ariba ko pm karonga usmei link dekhiyga or jakay upnay moulana ishaq key speech video mei suniyga zaroor).. App nay mujhey to keh diya kay mei jawab nahi doon... acha app to jawab denay ko taiyar hai... app say kuch sawal hai.. ab jo app ka attitude hai wohee upna kay mei bhee eik sath saray sawal thook deta hoon eik sath. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 8, 2006 YEH RAHAY JO APP SAY SAWALAT KARNAY HAI INKA JAWAB DEEJAY... SHOROR KAY KUCH SAWAL KAAT RAH AHOON KYONKAY WOH APP KAY BUS KEY BAAT NAHI :) 21. Do you believe in the 'Tawheed' of Allah (swt)? If you do, then is the essence of Allah (swt) Wajibul Wujood or Mumkinul Wujood? Wajibul Wujood: Belief in: Allah has always been, will always be, has no boundaries or limitations Mumkinul Wujood: Belief in: May be Allah has not always been (in existence), may be He might not be forever, and he has boundaries. 22. If Allah (swt) is Wajibul Wujood then what is your belief with regards to Hulool like Maulana Room has written in relation to Bayazeed Bistami: Baa Mureedaan Aan Fakeere Muhtasham, Baayazeed aamad ke yek Yazdaal Manam Give us a detailed account of it. Hulool: Meaning, a belief that God can descend in any living being's body, and so communicate spiritually with the being. 25. Among your beliefs is the fact that good and evil comes from Allah [swt], mean that Allah [swt] is the source of evil as well (astaghfirullah)? Prove this belief intellectually. 26. You have six Kalimas, the sixth of which is called 'Radde Kufr' wherein you do tabarra. Like in: Fatabarra'tu Minal Kufri wash Shirki wal Kidhb. I disassociate myself from Kufr and Shirk. Do you regard the doing of tabarra as permissible? 27. If you deem it permissible then why do you object to the Shi'a? And if you consider it forbidden then why not terminate your sixth kalima wherein you disassociate from Kufr? Would it not be better to simply accept that Tabarra is a means of dissociating oneself from Kufr? 28. 'Laa tudrukuhul absaar' are Qur'anic words, translate them and clarify the meaning of 'Lan Taraani'. 29. When the holy prophet went on Mi'raj, was he blessed with the sight of Allah (swt)? If he was, provide us with a hadeeth with a complete source and reference wherein the holy prophet describes the appearance of Allah (swt) 30. If Allah was behind the veil and the holy prophet had just heard His voice then why was the holy prophet deprived of seeing the beautiful appearance of Allah (swt)? 31. What is the basis of your doctrine of God's visibility, the Qur'an or Hadeeth? If it is the Qur an, then provide us with the verse and justify the contradiction as God's words are devoid of any contradiction. If it is hadeeth, then present it in relation to the Qur'an. 32. Despite the fact that you do not regard the companions as infallible and accept the notion of them committing sins, you consider it wrong to criticize them due to the respect you afford them. You regard their holiness to be in keeping evil off them, which proves the fact that, for the honour of a respectable and dignified personality it is necessary that he is kept away from sins and treated as immune from defects. This concept is infallibility in all but name. Then what objection do you have in considering the holy prophet as infallible when you consider it a sin to call his companions as sinners and reject the infallibility of the holy prophet himself? 33. To you it is not God that nominates people for the post of Imamah or Khilafah but it is based on the choice of human beings that is why the doctrine of Imamah does not form part of your Islamic doctrine. When Khilafah does not have a religious place to you at all, but you regard it as something outside of the Deen then why do you constantly engage in debates with the Shi'a on this? Is this not a contradiction? Why do you not confine political issues to politics only? 34. If Khilafah or Imamah is a matter of religion then as per the Qur'an, the Sunnah of God does not change. Therefore, beginning with Adam (as) through to the prophet Isa (as), name any prophet after whom one of his companions had been chosen as his vicegerent without gap, depriving the members of that prophet's household of the same right. 35. If none of the prophets preceding the holy prophet had a vicegerent who wasn't from his near of kin then why was the Sunnah of Allah (swt) changed in relation to Rasulullah (s)? Refer us to the verse and a hadith of commentary to prove such a change. 36. The slogans "Naara Takbeer Allahu Akbar, Naara Risaalat Ya Rasoolullah and Naara Hayderi Ya Ali" have been in practice for centuries but just recently you have introduced a new one "Naara Khilafat Haq Chaar Yaar" which signifies that only those four personalities have the right over the post of Khilafat. Mulla Ali Qari in Sharh Fiqh Akbar, Page 176, considers Yazeed Bin Muawiyah as the sixth Khalifah of the holy prophet. What about the rest of khalifahs of Khilafah? Did the holy prophet not state that there will be twelve khalifahs? Mention their names. 37. Our mothers and sisters will proclaim their God is Allah, their apostle the holy Prophet and their Maula, Ali (as) but none of them would dare proclaim 'Our Four Rightful Men' out of modesty considering it as an abuse. Then tell us, is this slogan for men only or for both men and women? Note: The original slogan in Urdu uses the work "Yaar", which can also be used as "very close friends". In India & Pakistan, therefore women hesitate to use this slogan. 38. It is reported in the traditions that a sword was brought for Ali (as) from heaven, angels came down to earth to assist Hadhrath Fatima (as) in revolving the grinding stones (chakki) in cookery, Ridhwan had appeared in the form of a tailor and brought clothes for Imam Hassan (as) and Imam Hussain (as), could you please refer to any hadeeth wherein even one sock is reported to have been revealed for Abubakr, Umar, Uthman and their like. 39. What is your position regarding the faith of Hadhrath Fatima (sea)? 40. If she was a Mu'menah then is it permissible to obey her or not? When every companion is Adil (Just), is following one of them a way of salvation? 41. If not then tell us why did the holy prophet say, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry." Sahih al Bukhari Volume 5 hadith 61 42. If it is permissible to obey her then it is reported in Saheeh Bukhari that Hadhrath Sayyedah Fatima was displeased with the two shaykhs. She had even instructed (in her will) that they should not participate in her funeral procession. 43. If Hadhrath Fatima's displeasure towards the two shaykhs was not against Islam then why is it important upon the general mass to love them? Allah [swt] deemed His anger and Fatima's to be the same, and Syeda Fatima left the earth angry with the 2 Shaykhs. 44. You are of the opinion that there had been no opposition between Hadhrath Ali (as) and the three companions. Suppose I accept that, but let me tell you, I have a very deep respect and honour for the pure lady Fatima (as) who was part of the flesh of the holy prophet (saww) and she has this esteem to her credit that whenever she appeared in the presence of the holy prophet (saww) he used to stand up as a welcoming gesture of honour to her. Therefore, will following such a respectful personality be a cause of salvation or not? Decide by keeping Bukhari and Muslim before your sight. 45. While departing from this world, did the holy prophet (saww) leave the Qur an with the ummah or not? 46. If he did then why did the need for the collection of the Qur an arise? And why were the Ummah kept without the Qur an till the period of Uthman? 47. If the holy prophet (saww) did not leave the Qur an with the Ummah prior to his departure then the task of Risallah was not accomplished because the purpose of his arrival was to convey the message of Allah to the ummah. How then is the religion complete? 48. You make a long list of Muslims who compiled the revelations which proves the fact that the holy prophet (saww) had himself been causing the Qur an being written and preserved it. But to our surprise, after the holy prophet (saww) up until the period of Uthman, people could not get the Qur an. Could you explain why this gap occurred? 49. You are proud of the memorizers of the Qur an and even claim the fact that there had been many such people among the companions of the holy prophet. Then, tell us, from among Ali (as), Abubakr, Umar and Uthman who knew the Qur'an by heart? Give your answers with complete sources and refer to your books. 50. If none of the three companions had been Haafidh of the Qur'an then why scoff the Shias despite the presence of many Haafidh among them? 51. In a reliable book of your sect, 'Itteqaan' by Suyuti, vol. 1 page 59, it is narrated that Ali (as) had once told Abubakr that an addition was being made to the Qur an and that my heart tells me that apart from the salaam, I am not going to wear my robe up until I have collected the Qur an, to which Abubakr said, you saw the right thing. This report has been received from Akramah who is a reliable leader of the Sunnis and every Sunni accepts this report as correct. Is this not a sufficient proof that after the departure of the holy prophet (saww), according to your sect efforts were made to interpolate the word of Allah (swt) and obviously the doers of that were Muslims themselves? What evidence can you then produce in support of the Qur'an being free from Tahreef (addition)? 52. It is narrated in saheeh Bukhari that the holy prophet used to forget the Qur an? If the bearer of the book, the prophet himself forgets it then the word's correctness becomes doubtful, which makes the Qur'an unreliable. Does such a narration not create doubts on the status of the Qur'an and Rasul'Allah? If Rasul'Allah (s) can err in relation to the Qur'an then does this not also mean he can forget on the Sunnah as well? When the authenticity of the Qur an and Sunnah comes into question, how can your sect be the true one? See also: Sunan Abu-Dawud, page 350 53. In your innumerable books of hadeeth, there are various reports that the Qur an has Tahreef in it. For instance it's mentioned in al Itteqaan that Surah Ahzaab had two hundred verses before and now it has 73 verses. What happened to the rest? If they were abrogated then refer us to those verses that came down to abrogate them? Similarly in Itteqaan, vol. 2, page 25 Abdullah Ibn Umar states that none of you should ever claim to have received the whole Qur an, rather what remains. The presence of such reports shows that according to your sect the Qur an has been changed. Can you elaborate? 54. Can the apostle forbid what has been allowed by Allah? Can you reply by relying on a Qur'anic verse? 55. Is anyone from among the ummah authorised to forbid what has been allowed by Allah and His messenger? 56. Allamah Shibli Nu'mani in al Farooq page 217 narrates from Saheeh Muslim that Umar had said that two Mut'a were allowed during the time of the holy prophet but I disallow them from now and these are the Mut'a of Hajj and the Mut'a of Nisaa. On what religious authority did Umar forbid what the apostle and Allah (swt) allowed? Clarify this point. 57. The Qur an says that 'Qaala Mumin min aale firaun yukassim imaanahu' a believer from the Aal of Firaun had concealed his belief and hence its shown that the concealment of belief out of fear is not disbelief or abhorrent on the part of a believer. Why then is the Taqayya of a Shia abhorrent to you? 58. Saheeh Bukhari, vol. 4, page 123 Egyptian edition reports from Hassan Basri that 'Al taqiyya baaqiyata ila yawmil qiyaamat, (Taqiyya is permissible until the Day of Judgement). When taqiyya is proved to be permissible from both the Qur'an and the Hadeeth, why then your sect attacks the Shi'a practice of taqiyya? 59. Fataawa Qaadhi Khan vol. 4, page 821 states, that if a person marries a mahram (mother, sister, daughter, aunt etc.) and has sexual intercourse with them and even admits the fact that he knew while performing the marital rites that it was Haraam for him to do that even then according to Imam Abu Hanifa, he is not subject to any type of Islamic penalty. Can we really adhere to a Sect that issues such a fatwa? Give us a rational reply? Fatawa Qadhi Khan, Page 98 Fatawa Qadhi Khan, Page 821 60. The Qur'an states that 'Laa yamassuhu illal Mutahharun' No one can touch it save the pure but in Fatmaada Aalamgeer vol. 5 page 134 and in Fatwa Siraajiya page 75, it is stated that Surah Fateha can be written with urine (astaghfirullah). Could you justify this claim? Fatawa Siraajiya, Page 75 61. Every chapter of the Qur an begins with Bismillah but Surah tawbah doesn't begin with it, why? 62. When the start of every Surah of the Qur an has been made with Bismillah, why then do you not start the Surahs in your salaat with Bismillah? 63. Prove 'Thanaa' Eulogy from the Qur an. 64. Point out Assalaatu minan nawm to us from the Qur an if not then at least from an authentic hadeeth. 65. Prove that these words had been used as part of the Adhan during Abubakr's period. 66. Prove to us that the prayers of taraweeh had been said in congregation during the time of the holy Prophet [saww] and during the period of Abubakr. 67. You only have nine reports at your disposal as far as praying the salaat by folding your arms is concerned. On the principles of the transmitters of hadeeth, prove their chains as 'Saheeh' correct. And prove all the transmitters as reliable. 68. From the period of Abubakr, present any example or a report to prove that Abubakr said his prayers by folding his arms. If you can, why do the Malikis keep their arms straight while saying their prayers? 69. The Qur'an instructs us to fast till night "thamar atmou alsiyamar ilaa Al-lail", and night enters when darkness casts in. Why do you open your fasts early? Why were Umar and Uthman opening their fasts after Maghrib prayers? Nuqaa' Umar, Page 110, Hadeeth 351, by Shah Waliallah Dhelavi 70. You claim that the Shia'a Qur an contains forty parts, prove its source from the four Shia key books (Kutub Al-'Arba'a). 71. If Mut'a is Haraam, why did Asma Bin Abubakr do it? For evidence, refer to Tafseer Mazhari Qadhi Thanaa Allah, page 577. 72. In Mishkat Shareef, it is reported that when Abubakr and Umar asked the holy Prophet [saww] for his daughter, Lady Fatima[sa]'s hand the Prophet[saww] replied she is too young to marry, is this a correct report? 73. If it is wrong then prove it with full evidence both intellectual and textual. 74. If this is correct then think rationally over the fact that, Umme Kulthum[sa] whose mother was too young to marry these people, marries these same personalities, does this make sense? 75. Can your prayers be complete without darood? If yes then come up with full evidence and if not then how come the blessings are just sent upon Muhammad [saww] and his progeny and not upon his companions and wives? When the prayers can be complete without sending blessings to the wives and the companions, why does Ahl'ul Sunnah add the names of these groups to Darood in their religious gatherings? 76. Cite a saheeh and authoritative text hadeeth of the apostle with a complete source wherein it is reported that it is obligatory to send darood upon all the companions and wives of the holy prophet (saww). And also tell us if it is obligatory then how can the prayers be in order without them? 77. You believe that the Khilafat can either be established by public votes or the way of ijma (consensus). Could you verify this with evidence from the sayings of the apostle himself? 78. Did the holy prophet (saww) depart from this world without giving guidance on Khilafat? If yes, why then did the two shaykhs say 'ilaaimatu minal quraysh' (The Imams are from Quraysh) in saqeefa bani sa'da? Did they specifically lie for leadership? Also why oppose the holy prophet's Sunnah, why did Abubakr candidate Umar? 79. In majmaul Bihar, Muhammad Tahir Gujrati writes that Abubakr confessed that 'I am not a Khalifah but a Khalifah' if you regard him truthful then why do you not deny his caliphate? 80. In Sawaiq Al-Muhriqah of Allamah Ibn Hajar Makki writes that there are three siddeeq (truthful), Habib an Najaar, Hazqeel and Ali (as), and that Ali (as) was better than the two. Why has Abubakr not been mentioned here? See also: Tafseer e Kabir, Vol. 7, Page 317 81. Was Umar the heir of the holy Prophet [saww]'s knowledge? If yes then why as is stipulated by Jalaludeen Suyuti 'Umar used to seek refuge with Allah from every difficult question or case when there is no Abul Hassan (History of the Khalifahs who took the right way (English translation by Abdassamad Clarke page 178)? And why did he confess that 'lau la Aliyyan lahalakal Umar'? If Ali (as) weren t there, Umar would have perished (Tadkhiratul Khawwas, by Sibt Ibne Jauzi, page 127). Note: The comments in Dhikr-e-Hussain by Maulana Kauthar Niyazi are also worthy of note. 82. Did the two shaykhs of Ahl'ul Sunnah participate in the burial rituals of the holy Prophet [saww], if you claim they did, then why do we read that both Sharh mawaqif and Al Farooq Shibli Nu'mani confirm their absence? If they did not participate then what type of friends are these? Al-Farooq, by Shibli Nu mani, Page 40 83. In Musnad Ahmed Hanbal and so on, it is mentioned that Ayesha had named Uthman as Nathal, who should be killed and Murtakib Kufr. If you regard Ayesha as the truthful then you will have to accept what she called Uthman. And if she did not tell the truth then why do you call her the truthful? 84. The soldiers that the holy prophet (saww) had prepared against Musailimah ibn kazzab were commanded by Usama and Abubakr and Umar were also instructed to be under him. Why did Abubakr and Umar not go? What legal dispensation did they have that entitled them to ignore the holy Prophet [saww]'s commands? If they have such dispensation, why did the holy Prophet [saww] curse those who were appointed for participation but did not go? See also: Milal wa Al-Nihal [English translation] page 18 85. In Muwatta of Imam malik, translated by Allamah Waheed al Zamaan, Page 147, hadeeth 603, Rasulullah (s) narrates that a companion had approached him, beating his chest and ripping his hair. If chest beating in the presence of Rasulullah (s) is allowed then why do you object to it? 86. Sheikh Abdul Haq Muhaddath Dehlavi in his book Midaaraj Nabaweeya, vol. 2, page 544 writes that the Mu'adhdhin of the apostle, Hadhrath Bilal Habashi (r.a) came to the Mosque of the Prophet [saww] beating his chest and complaining. What is your verdict regarding chest beating? 87. In the Musnad of Imam Hanbal, Egyptian edition, Vol. 6, Page 274 it is written that upon the demise of the holy Prophet [saww], Ayesha beat her chest along with the other women, what is your opinion regarding this act of Ummul Mu'mineen? 88. Hadhrath Ali Hajweeri Al Mash-huur Daata Ganj Bakhsh Lahori in his book Kashful Mahjoob, chapter 2, page 118, section 8 reports it from Umar, that the holy Prophet [saww] played as a camel for the then young Imam Hussain[as], meaning he made himself a replica of a camel. Following the Sunnah of the holy Prophet [saww] is it Sunnah (tradition) to make a replica of Imam Hussain[as]'s horse or is it a bid'at (Innovation)? 89. Kanzul A'mal, Hayder Aabad edition, vol. 5, in the Musnad of Ali karramallahu wajhu, page 147, hadeeth 2403 it is written that, the holy Prophet [saww] used to wipe his feet during wudhoo, why do you not regard wiping as permissible? If the feet will go to hell by being kept dry during wudhoo then how is the wiping over the socks correct? 90. In the Bai'at of Ridhwan, the Muslims took a covenant of not fleeing from the battlefield. But the battle of Hunayn took place after the "bay'at of under the tree". Of those people who went against their covenants, what is your verdict with regards to them? 91. The historian, Habib as Sayr writes regarding the battle of Hunayn that: Purseed Abu Bakr wa Umar kujaa Budand? Guft aan neez dar goshe rafte budand. Meaning when it was enquired where Abubakr and Umar were? The narrator replied they had also fled to some corner. Contemplate over this narration, let it be very clear that in your Tafseer Qaweri, Tafseer Hussayni, Rawdhatus Safaa, Taareekhul Khamseen, Rawdhatul Ahbab, Ma'aarijun Nubuwwah, etc it is mentioned that the three gentlemen had fled from the battle of Hunayn. Why did they break the covenant of the Bay'at of Ridhwan? Reply after reading all these books. 92. If these three men had been brave then show us from your book Tafseer Qaweri the names of these three men from among those who did not flee in the battle of Hunayn. And prove it to us from all of your books, how many non-believers had been killed by these three men in the battles of Badr, Uhud, Khaybar, Khandaq and Hunayn. How many non-believers did they inflict with harm? And how much harm did themselves sustain in their bodies? And just mention five names with complete sources from among those whom these people killed. 93. If Umar has been brave then write the names of people who got killed at his hands in the battles of Uhud and Hunayn from historical sources compare Ali [sa] and Umar so that their doings in those two battles become known. 94. In the Tafseer of Dur Manthur Suyuti, vol. 54, and Izalatul Khifa of Shah Waliyyullaah Muhaddath Dahlavi, page 199 etc. it is written that the holy Prophet [saww] told Abubakr 'The polytheism is moving in you like the moving of an ant'. Take notice of this hadeeth and tell us how then was he a siddeeq? And if he did not have shirk within himself then dare to belie like a disbeliever the truthfulness of the holy Prophet [saww]. 95. In your Fataawa Qaadhi Khan, vol. 1, page 64, it is written that if a person who is in a state of prayers kisses a woman without lust then his prayer is valid. Is the time for it too short except in prayers? Where is the need for such a thing in prayers? 96. Imam Ghazzali in sirrul Aalameen, Maqaalidul Ba'aa page 9, writes the desire for power had prevailed among the Sahaba and they first turned into opposition. They threw the holy Prophet [saww]'s message onto their backs, they demanded some payment in return for the foundation and they did a very bad trade. Could you please elaborate on this? 97. You oppose the halaal Mut'a and do not hesitate terming it as adultery. But in your book Sharh Wiqaaya, page 298, it is mentioned that to your Imam Abu Hanifa, stated the expenditure of an adulteress is halaal and there is not any jurisprudential limit on one who rewards a woman for zinah. Is Mut'ah worse than this? 98. By calling Marwan back from Medinah, Uthman bin Affan opposed the holy Prophet [saww]. Do you reproach this or support it? 99. It is an established fact in the books of Sunnis that Muawiyah had disputed with the Khalifah Rashid (the rightly guided caliph) and ordered the poisoning of Imam Hassan[sa] (check Mahram Naama, khwaja Hassan Nidhami) and why are the companions who made Ali[as] be abused on the pulpits considered as fair players? Give us intellectual and textual reasoning. 100. How and with whose instructions did the incident of Harra transpire? What happened to Medina and Ahl Medinah during the same? Please give a detailed account of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ariba 0 Posted May 8, 2006 InshaAllah I will go for detailed n clear answers.bulkay agar app kahty hain fisrt 20 ka ans b day deti hoon questions b main likh doon?lolzz Pehly main apki first post yani warast wale ka jawab day loon phir deti hoon inn ka.May be i would take much of my time n u will also have to wait for answers because of my daily business. Will be back soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 8, 2006 InshaAllah I will go for detailed n clear answers.bulkay agar app kahty hain fisrt 20 ka ans b day deti hoon questions b main likh doon?lolzzPehly main apki first post yani warast wale ka jawab day loon phir deti hoon inn ka.May be i would take much of my time n u will also have to wait for answers because of my daily business. Will be back soon. 184710[/snapback] App time ley lain its ok I understand. The thing is I came here with the intentions that there are a lot of misunderstandings among sunnis about shias beleifs and I just thought maybe I could clear some of them up for everybody over here. But what I got is people jumping in, I was chatting about tawheed with hanzala and a totally different topic with you, but hanzala had to jump in while I was not discussing anything else with him. To a certain extent same applies to you. Either way I adopted the general attitude of majority of people over here, and just posted all these questions at once now all its going to do is create more confusion but thats the name of the game in this thread, so be it. I also want to point out that I did send you a private message with a link to a video of a sunni moulana which you convinently ignored. I wonder why. KH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ariba 0 Posted May 9, 2006 mAAL-E-FAY KAY MUSARIF mAIN hAZOOR(saw) NE APNI ZINGDI MAIN ISKO KHARACH KIYA.(MUSARIF HAIN:aLLAH KAY NAAM PER DENA,rASOOL(saw) KAY AKHARAJAT,YATAMA,MASAKEEN,RISHTYDAR,MUSAFIR AUR FUQARA-E-MOUHAJREEN AUR ANSAR) aPP ISIS SEE APNA AUR APNE GHAR WALOON KA KHARACH B NIKALTY THAY.hAZART abu bakar(R.A) ne b issi sunnat per amal kiya.Aisa moutalibah shia rawayat k moutabiq Hazart Fatimah Hazoor(saw) see khud b kar chukein thein. Sunan abu daoud main jild 2 pg no.59 per moujood hai k Hazart sayyada(RA) ne khud app see in zameenon ka sawal kiya tha aur app(saw) ne nahin diya tha,jaise unko khud duniya pasand nahin thi waise hi apni baiti k liye b pasand nahin thi.Aub shia rawayat paish-e-khidmat hai.Issko baar baar aur ghoor see parh lein, "Hazart fatimah Bint-e-rasool(saw) iss baymari main hazoor (saw) k pass ain aur kaha k aye Allah kay rasool mere 2 baity hain inn k liye kuch warasat main see day jaye.Tou App(SAW) ne farmaya k Hussan(RA) ki mayraas meri haibat hai aur hussain(ra) ki mayraas meri bahadurri hai.(khisal ibne babuyermiya,pg no39 published in iran) Shia k mouhaddith Furaat bin ibrahiem bin farat kofi najaf-e-Ashraf main likhty hain pg no.86 per (Inn ka naam aub baar baar aye ga.nn kay do shagrid hain ali bin ibrahim aur kalaini,inn k naam b ayein gay)likhty hain k Hazart Ali(R.A) kay moutalbe per hazoor(SAW)ne unko kitab-ul Allah aur sunnat ko hi unki mayraas bataya. Bukhari main kaye jagha aya hai k Hazart Umer(RA) ne Hazart Ali aur hazart Abbas(rizwan Allah alehim) ko mal-e-fadak ka qabza diya tha phir un main taba kay ikhtlaf per jaghra hoo gaya tou wo isski taqeem k liye Hazart Umer(RA) kay pass aye k app isko taqseem kar dein hum apni marzi see isko kharach kar diya karin gay.Hazart Umer(ra) ne isko warast ka sa smajhty huay aisa karne see inkaar kar diya aur faramaya"hazoor(saw) iss maal seee apne ghar walo ka kharach nikalty thay phir baqi ko Allah k rah main day dete thay.App ne apni ppori zindgi issi per amal kiya kiya tum issya janty hoo.sab ne kaha haan.phir hazart Umer(R.A) ne Ali(ra) aur abbas(ra) see b poocha tou unhoon ne kaha haan hum iss janty hain.aur iss per Allah ne apne nabi ko wafat di. Apki kitab fatooh-ul-baldan main likha hai"Nisf-e-fadak Hazoor kay qabza main thi aur app iss seemusafirron per kharach karty aur apne ghar waloon per aur fuqara-e-banu hashim ko daity aur bay nikahoon ki shadiyan karty". Apko Hazoor kay tareeka see pata chul gaya hoo ga k yeh maal kaisa tha aur iss kay kiya musarif thay.Govt ki zameen ka haqdar koon hota hai?yeh simple sa question hai.ajj b aur kal b isska aik hi nas hai. Jawab ka liye main apko asool-e-kafi k pg no.436 per liye chalti hoon.moulahiza farmaien "Bayshak Allah ne zameen khalifa k liye banaiee hai jaise farmaya farishtoon see k main zameen main khalifa banane wala hoon .pas roye zameen hazart Adam as kay liye thi iss k baad app k naik sahabzadoon aur khalifoon ko mili". Yehi wo baat hai jo main apko ussdin see bata rahi hoon k anbiya ki mayras taqseem nahin hoti unki naik jansheenon ko milti hai. Imam jaffar sadaq reh farmaty hain"Anfaal wo maal hain jin per lashkar kashi na ki jaye.ya koe qoom sulah see day day.har qisam ki zameen rasool kay qabze main hoo gi phir uss kay qabze main jo apka jan nasheen hoo ga wo jahan chahye usko kharach karepus hazoor k baad khuda aur rasool ka hissa ouli lil amar ko mily ga batoor warasat kay aur aik usko hissa minjand Allah mily ga(Asool-e-kafi.pg439) Abu daoud shairf pg no59 per hai hazart ABu bakar ra ne hazart fatimah ko farmaya k main ne hazoor saw ko farmaty suna hai k Allah jab kisi nabi ko khourak k liye dete hain tou iss main tasruf ka haq khalifa ko hai. Agar Hazart Abu bakar amwal-e-fay Hazart Fatimah ko day daity tou phir un per yeh ilzam ana tha k baqi 6 masarif kiun nahin poory kiye. Yeh jo warasat wali hadith hai ye apki aur humari kkutab main matifiqun aleh hai.Imam bukhari ne pg437 per muslim ne 90 per aur iss terha see yeh hadith tirmazi,abu daoud aur ibn e maja main moujood hai. Asool-e-kafi 665 page per imam jafar saqad ne farmaya"suleman daoud kay waris huay aur muhammad(saw) sulemaan kay.aur hum muhammad kay waris hain humaray pass tourat zaboor aur alwah-e-mousa(as) ka ilm hai. Issi terha ki doosri rawayat same page per,Imam jafar ne farmaya k tamam anbiya kay waris hazart daoud huay phir unkay waris sulemaan huay,muhammad Sulemaan kay waris bane aur hum unkay waris hain.humaray pass alwah-e-mousa aur suhaf-e-ibrahim hain. Tou app yeh bataine k Hazoor saw kaise bun gay hazart sulemaan kay waris?kiya unka koe rishta tha un see?ya phir yahan koonsi ki warasat mourad hai.I hope its clear now jo main itne dinoo see try kar rahi hoon. Aub asool-e-kafi pg no.34 per Hadith parhein "Bayshak ulama Anbiya kay wairs hain aur ANIBYA AS DIRHUM AUR DENAAR KI MAYRAS NAHIN CHORTY LAKIN WOH ILM KA WARIS BANATY HAIN JO WO LAITA HAI WOH BARI DOLAT HASIL KAR LAITA HAI. bAB SIFA TUL ILM PER IMAM JAFFAR KA ISS SEE MILTA JULTA IRSHAD Moujood hai. Hazart Ali ki APne baity Muhammad bin hanefa ko nasehat b yehi hadith hai. Baqi app ka yeh kehna k humaray scholors ne isska yehi tarjuma kiya hai tou humaray scholors yeh b keh rahy hain k dono main sulah hoo gaiee thi.Daikhiye Rayaz un nazra pg no.154 likha hai k hazart abu bakar hazart sayyeda k pass aye aur ijazat chahi tou hazart Ali ne Ne kaha k agar app chahien tou woh ander ajain.Hazart syeda ki razamandi per wo ander aye aur guftgu farmaiee so woh app se razi hoo gaien. Daikhy baqi kitbaien Tabqat-e-ibn-e-saad,Rawayat-e-imam aouzaiee,sunan ul kubra,sharah aqaied,albidaya wa nihaya main hai k Hazart abu bakar ne farmaya"Bayshak main ne apna ghar bhar maal bachy Allah ki raza ki khatir hi chory hain,phir hazart ne sayyda see raza mandi chahi aur woh razi hoo gaien. Allamah ibne kaseer farmty hain"ISS BAB MAIN SAB SEE BEHTER HAZART-E-SAYYEDA KA YEH FARMAAN HAI K AYE ABU BAKAR RA APP IRSHAD-E-RASOOL PER AMAL KARIN MAIN USS PER RAZI HOON YEHI DARUST BAAT HAI HAZART-E-SAYYDA KAY SHAYAN-E-SHAN HAI. I am sorry agar yaha parhne main apko koe dushwari aye.Because of my ailment i cant revive it.if u feel u cant understan any line then quote it.i will edit it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ariba 0 Posted May 9, 2006 App time ley lain its ok I understand. The thing is I came here with the intentions that there are a lot of misunderstandings among sunnis about shias beleifs and I just thought maybe I could clear some of them up for everybody over here. But what I got is people jumping in, I was chatting about tawheed with hanzala and a totally different topic with you, but hanzala had to jump in while I was not discussing anything else with him. To a certain extent same applies to you. Either way I adopted the general attitude of majority of people over here, and just posted all these questions at once now all its going to do is create more confusion but thats the name of the game in this thread, so be it. I also want to point out that I did send you a private message with a link to a video of a sunni moulana which you convinently ignored. I wonder why. KH 184760[/snapback] Well aisa tou hoina hi tha.lakin aub hum aik kaam karty hain wo yeh k app pehly mere yeh 2 3 jo questions pehly se chul rahy hain unkay aur hanzala kay questions ya objections ko clear karin.main apki inn questions k ans apne pass save kye jati hoon jab app clear kar chuku tou main wo post kar doon gi.ok? Baqi vidoe tou main app k pm ko reply kar rahi thi k light went out so everything distrubed. Main vidoe ko nahin dakh sakti.net speed is so slow.N honestly the reason is i aviod seeing such things. App ko sayyada Fatimah ka aik qool bata deti hoon app smajhdar hain smajh jain gay."Duniya ki behtreen aurat woh hai jo na kisi na mehrum ko daikhy aur na koe na mehrum usko daikhy" App chahin tou mazak ura lein chahye jo b kar lein lakin main chahty huay b yeh video nahin daikh sakti.ap bata dein kiya hai iss main?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ariba 0 Posted May 9, 2006 App ko jawab shayad he millay cos jo batian unmei hai unmei say aksar jo hai woh itni jahilana hai kay woh deserve nahi akrti kay unka jawab diya jayee. Jiasya yeh kay app samjhtay hai shio ka aqeeda hai allah jhoot bolta hai, ya yeh kay Quran mei pakistan ka zikr hai ... yeh sub bachoo walay aitraazat hai jo lagayee jatya hai shio per jin ka haqeeqat say koie talloq nahi hia. Baz batain hai jo sahi hai bilkol such hai lekin unko samjhnay ka eik tareeqa hota hia app nay jo aitraaz lagaye ehia woh yeh jannay kay liyay nahi kay shia aisa kiyo aqeeda rakhtay hai bulkay is liyay kay unsay app sabit karna chahtay hai kay shia kafir hai kyionkay app nay upnay taur pay yeh pehlay say sooch rakkha hai kay jo aisa karay woh kafir hia, shia kartay ai is iyay shia kafir. 184702[/snapback] Na tou bachon waly aiteraz hain aur n hi gair haqeqi.yeh apki book s se sabit shuda hain. Allah tells lie budah yeh apki book see sabit hai.lakin main agar aub usko paish kar doon tou app kahin gay aik aur bayhas chair di.agar app chahin tou kar doon? Ok see my next post!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 9, 2006 Well aisa tou hoina hi tha.lakin aub hum aik kaam karty hain wo yeh k app pehly mere yeh 2 3 jo questions pehly se chul rahy hain unkay aur hanzala kay questions ya objections ko clear karin.main apki inn questions k ans apne pass save kye jati hoon jab app clear kar chuku tou main wo post kar doon gi.ok?Baqi vidoe tou main app k pm ko reply kar rahi thi k light went out so everything distrubed. Main vidoe ko nahin dakh sakti.net speed is so slow.N honestly the reason is i aviod seeing such things. App ko sayyada Fatimah ka aik qool bata deti hoon app smajhdar hain smajh jain gay."Duniya ki behtreen aurat woh hai jo na kisi na mehrum ko daikhy aur na koe na mehrum usko daikhy" App chahin tou mazak ura lein chahye jo b kar lein lakin main chahty huay b yeh video nahin daikh sakti.ap bata dein kiya hai iss main?? 184786[/snapback] No I totally understand and respect your point of view. App aisa karein kay dekhai nahi video lekin ussay play karkay sirif sun lei, waisay bhee mera dekhnay say maqsad yehee tha kay us video mei jo msg hai thora woh appko millay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious One 0 Posted May 9, 2006 Na tou bachon waly aiteraz hain aur n hi gair haqeqi.yeh apki book s se sabit shuda hain.Allah tells lie budah yeh apki book see sabit hai.lakin main agar aub usko paish kar doon tou app kahin gay aik aur bayhas chair di.agar app chahin tou kar doon? Ok see my next post!! 184788[/snapback] App charai joj topic chahee charai lekin budah kay baray mei baat karnay say pehlay pls app shia site pay jakay usko poori tarah samjh lein phir uskay baray mei app baat zaroor karei. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
