Is Shia Kaafir?

[Curious One 0]

Abhi tak jitni b meri posts hain wo fadak per hi hain.shaid app ne miss kar di hain ya parhne ki koshish hi nahin ki.aik baar check kar lein aur wahan see mujhay jawab dein tak agay discussion chaly.

sab ka jawab day chuki hoon aur day rahi hoon.aik bar pichlay pages per ja kar daikh lein agar na mily to tell me main dobarah post kar deti hoon.

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App nay kaha jawab diya han yeh kaha kay nahi wirsay mei bus nabowat milli, or mei appko proof tak dey raha hoon sirif kitab ka naam nahi bulkay scan kiya houay pages lekin bus app key eik he baat kay nahi wrisay mei nabowat millti hai. App isko jawab dena keh rahi hai kiya??

Loo main ne abhi tak koe baat evidence kay baghair nahin ki apki books bol bol kar bata rahi hain.app kay imamoon ki rawayat hain apki ahadith hain.koe tareekh ki kitab nahin hai k jis see main apki terha bata rahi hoon.

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Evidence kaha app nay jin kitabo ka naam diya hia u nmei aksar woh hai jinmei yeh ahadith hai lekin inko likh kar analyze kiya gaya hia or ghalat sabit kiya gaya hia kay yeh shai nahi hai... sirif us hadith ka quote karnay ka maqsad he yeh hai kay inko ghalat sabit kiya jayee.

Or ghussa ka jaha tak talooq hai to ghussa nahi a raha mujhey to hansi a rahi hai. Kay app nay jawab diya nahi lekin kahey ja rhai hai kay jawab diya.

[ariba 0]

mAAL-E-FAY KAY MUSARIF mAIN hAZOOR(saw) NE APNI ZINGDI MAIN ISKO KHARACH KIYA.(MUSARIF HAIN:aLLAH KAY NAAM PER DENA,rASOOL(saw) KAY AKHARAJAT,YATAMA,MASAKEEN,RISHTYDAR,MUSAFIR AUR FUQARA-E-MOUHAJREEN AUR ANSAR)

aPP ISIS SEE APNA AUR APNE GHAR WALOON KA KHARACH B NIKALTY THAY.hAZART abu bakar(R.A) ne b issi sunnat per amal kiya.Aisa moutalibah shia rawayat k moutabiq Hazart Fatimah Hazoor(saw) see khud b kar chukein thein.

Sunan abu daoud main jild 2 pg no.59 per moujood hai k Hazart sayyada(RA) ne khud app see in zameenon ka sawal kiya tha aur app(saw) ne nahin diya tha,jaise unko khud duniya pasand nahin thi waise hi apni baiti k liye b pasand nahin thi.Aub shia rawayat paish-e-khidmat hai.Issko baar baar aur ghoor see parh lein,

"Hazart fatimah Bint-e-rasool(saw) iss baymari main hazoor (saw) k pass ain aur kaha k aye Allah kay rasool mere 2 baity hain inn k liye kuch warasat main see day jaye.Tou App(SAW) ne farmaya k Hussan(RA) ki mayraas meri haibat hai aur hussain(ra) ki mayraas meri bahadurri hai.(khisal ibne babuyermiya,pg no39 published in iran)

Shia k mouhaddith Furaat bin ibrahiem bin farat kofi najaf-e-Ashraf main likhty hain pg no.86 per (Inn ka naam aub baar baar aye ga.nn kay do shagrid hain ali bin ibrahim aur kalaini,inn k naam b ayein gay)likhty hain k Hazart Ali(R.A) kay moutalbe per hazoor(SAW)ne unko kitab-ul Allah aur sunnat ko hi unki mayraas bataya.

Bukhari main kaye jagha aya hai k Hazart Umer(RA) ne Hazart Ali aur hazart Abbas(rizwan Allah alehim) ko mal-e-fadak ka qabza diya tha phir un main taba kay ikhtlaf per jaghra hoo gaya tou wo isski taqeem k liye Hazart Umer(RA) kay pass aye k app isko taqseem kar dein hum apni marzi see isko kharach kar diya karin gay.Hazart Umer(ra) ne isko warast ka sa smajhty huay aisa karne see inkaar kar diya aur faramaya"hazoor(saw) iss maal seee apne ghar walo ka kharach nikalty thay

phir baqi ko Allah k rah main day dete thay.App ne apni ppori zindgi issi per amal kiya kiya tum issya janty hoo.sab ne kaha haan.phir hazart Umer(R.A) ne Ali(ra) aur abbas(ra) see b poocha tou unhoon ne kaha haan hum iss janty hain.aur iss per Allah ne apne nabi ko wafat di.

Apki kitab fatooh-ul-baldan main likha hai"Nisf-e-fadak Hazoor kay qabza main thi aur app iss seemusafirron per kharach karty aur apne ghar waloon per aur fuqara-e-banu hashim ko daity aur bay nikahoon ki shadiyan karty".

Apko Hazoor kay tareeka see pata chul gaya hoo ga k yeh maal kaisa tha aur iss kay kiya musarif thay.Govt ki zameen ka haqdar koon hota hai?yeh simple sa question hai.ajj b aur kal b isska aik hi nas hai.

Jawab ka liye main apko asool-e-kafi k pg no.436 per liye chalti hoon.moulahiza farmaien

"Bayshak Allah ne zameen khalifa k liye banaiee hai jaise farmaya farishtoon see k main zameen main khalifa banane wala hoon .pas roye zameen hazart Adam as kay liye thi iss k baad app k naik sahabzadoon aur khalifoon ko mili".

Yehi wo baat hai jo main apko ussdin see bata rahi hoon k anbiya ki mayras taqseem nahin hoti unki naik jansheenon ko milti hai.

Imam jaffar sadaq reh farmaty hain"Anfaal wo maal hain jin per lashkar kashi na ki jaye.ya koe qoom sulah see day day.har qisam ki zameen rasool kay qabze main hoo gi phir uss kay qabze main jo apka jan nasheen hoo ga wo jahan chahye usko kharach karepus hazoor k baad khuda aur rasool ka hissa ouli lil amar ko mily ga batoor warasat kay aur aik usko hissa minjand Allah mily ga(Asool-e-kafi.pg439)

Abu daoud shairf pg no59 per hai hazart ABu bakar ra ne hazart fatimah ko farmaya k main ne hazoor saw ko farmaty suna hai k Allah jab kisi nabi ko khourak k liye dete hain tou iss main tasruf ka haq khalifa ko hai.

Agar Hazart Abu bakar amwal-e-fay Hazart Fatimah ko day daity tou phir un per yeh ilzam ana tha k baqi 6 masarif kiun nahin poory kiye.

Yeh jo warasat wali hadith hai ye apki aur humari kkutab main matifiqun aleh hai.Imam bukhari ne pg437 per muslim ne 90 per aur iss terha see yeh hadith tirmazi,abu daoud aur ibn e maja main moujood hai.

Asool-e-kafi 665 page per imam jafar saqad ne farmaya"suleman daoud kay waris huay aur muhammad(saw) sulemaan kay.aur hum muhammad kay waris hain humaray pass tourat zaboor aur alwah-e-mousa(as) ka ilm hai.

Issi terha ki doosri rawayat same page per,Imam jafar ne farmaya k tamam anbiya kay waris hazart daoud huay phir unkay waris sulemaan huay,muhammad Sulemaan kay waris bane aur hum unkay waris hain.humaray pass alwah-e-mousa aur suhaf-e-ibrahim hain.

Tou app yeh bataine k Hazoor saw kaise bun gay hazart sulemaan kay waris?kiya unka koe rishta tha un see?ya phir yahan koonsi ki warasat mourad hai.I hope its clear now jo main itne dinoo see try kar rahi hoon.

Aub asool-e-kafi pg no.34 per Hadith parhein

"Bayshak ulama Anbiya kay wairs hain aur ANIBYA AS DIRHUM AUR DENAAR KI MAYRAS NAHIN CHORTY LAKIN WOH ILM KA WARIS BANATY HAIN JO WO LAITA HAI WOH BARI DOLAT HASIL KAR LAITA HAI.

bAB SIFA TUL ILM PER IMAM JAFFAR KA ISS SEE MILTA JULTA IRSHAD Moujood hai.

Hazart Ali ki APne baity Muhammad bin hanefa ko nasehat b yehi hadith hai.

Baqi app ka yeh kehna k humaray scholors ne isska yehi tarjuma kiya hai tou humaray scholors yeh b keh rahy hain k dono main sulah hoo gaiee thi.Daikhiye Rayaz un nazra pg no.154 likha hai k hazart abu bakar hazart sayyeda k pass aye aur ijazat chahi tou hazart Ali ne

Ne kaha k agar app chahien tou woh ander ajain.Hazart syeda ki razamandi per wo ander aye aur guftgu farmaiee so woh app se razi hoo gaien.

Daikhy baqi kitbaien Tabqat-e-ibn-e-saad,Rawayat-e-imam aouzaiee,sunan ul kubra,sharah aqaied,albidaya wa nihaya main hai k Hazart abu bakar ne farmaya"Bayshak main ne apna ghar bhar maal bachy Allah ki raza ki khatir hi chory hain,phir hazart ne sayyda see raza mandi chahi aur woh razi hoo gaien.

Allamah ibne kaseer farmty hain"ISS BAB MAIN SAB SEE BEHTER HAZART-E-SAYYEDA KA YEH FARMAAN HAI K AYE ABU BAKAR RA APP IRSHAD-E-RASOOL PER AMAL KARIN MAIN USS PER RAZI HOON YEHI DARUST BAAT HAI HAZART-E-SAYYDA KAY SHAYAN-E-SHAN HAI.

I am sorry agar yaha parhne main apko koe dushwari aye.Because of my ailment i cant revive it.if u feel u cant understan any line then quote it.i will edit it.

Yeh app ne parhi hai ya nahin?koe jawab hai iss main ya nahin?aub main yeh bata bata kar jawab doon k yeh iska jawab hai yeh iska tou kiya iss terha karna pary ga?mere khiyal main itne smajhdar tou hain app b.

Achi baat hai app ko ghussa nahin arah.waise karna b nahin chahye.discussion main ghussay ki zaroart hi kiya hai.

[Curious One 0]

app ko or bhee boaht see ahadith app key kitabo say dey sakta hoon jinsay app ko pata chal jayega kay haqeeqat kiya hai agar app janna chahein.. lekin mei app key sari bataon ka jawab zara different tareeqay say dena chahonga.

[COLOR=red]Musnad Ibn Hanbal:[/color]

Hadhrat Fatima Zahra became angry at Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died, because she claimed her share in the Prophet's Estate of Fadak, and Abu Bakr rejected her claim"

Kanz:

Sayyida Fatima became upset at Abu Bakr as he denied giving her inheritance rights.

Sunan al Kabeera:

"Fatima became angry at Abu Bakr, and never spoke to Abu Bakr until she died"

Wafa al Wafa:

"Abu Bakr denied Fatima her right and she became angry never speaking to Abu Bakr until she died".

Issay sabit houa Janab-e-Faitma Naraz houiee thee theek hai??

Ibn Qutaybah Imamah wa al Siyasa safhay 14 pay kiya likhtay hia yeh bhee dekh lei:

"Fatima said 'When I meet my father the Prophet (s), then I shall' complain about the both of you (Abu Bakr and Umar), and said to Abu Bakr 'By Allah I shall curse you after every Salat".

AB dekhiyay kay Mullah Qari in Murqat, Sharh Mishkat al Masabih mei kiya likhtay hai

"The most difficult issue to convey to readers is the dispute of Fatima al Zahra. To say that Fatima was ignorant with regards to the Hadeeth cited by Abu Bakr, or that she did not concur with the Hadeeth when hearing it, creates difficulties. After all Abu Bakr recited this Hadeeth, and the testimony of the Sahaba upheld this, why did she not accept it and embrace it. If she was angry before the Hadeeth was recited, then why did she remain angry after it was quoted? The displeasure was so extreme that she remained angry with Abu Bakr, never talking to him".

Issay sabit hota hai kay woh akrhi waqt tak naraz rahi .

Theek hai yaha tak to khoola khoola sabit hai sub kuch.

Acha yeh app nay khod likha tha kay eik muslaman say teen dinsay ziada naraz rehnay jaiz nahi hia islam mei.. iskay baray mei hadith bhee mojood hai lekin yeh to app khod manti hai is liyay isko prove karnay key zaroorat nahi.

Ab app khod batain kay kiya hal hai?? Ap khaiengee kkay aisa houa he nahi tha lekin agar app chahee to mei app ko or bhee references dey sakta hoon app key kitabo kay jinsay sabit hoga kay houa aisa he tha. To ab ya to app yeh mannay kay janab-e-Sayyeda nay ghalat kiya ya phir Hz Abu Bakar ko ghalat mannay.

App ka yeh jo donno cheezo ko saht lekar chalna hai yeh ghalat hai. Jiss tarha Hazrat Ali or Hz Ayesha key jung houie lekin donno ko upni upni jaga sahi mantay hai app log. Hz Ali or Muawiya key jung houie hazaroo musalman marray gayee lekin donno upni jagga janti. Kumsay kum eik ko to ghalat mannay. Warna woh Hazaro musalamn jo un jungo mei marray gayee who kss kay kkhatay mei jayeingay. Issi tarha yeh fadak kay mamlay mei bhee research karkay haq ko tallash kare. Ya to jo Janab-e-syeda kay baray mei ahaidth hai unkay kirdar kay baray mei, rasool key ahadith unkay barya mei woh ghalat hongi. Ya phir mannay kay Abu Bakar ghalat thay.

Acha zara yeh bhee parh lei kay Hz Abu Bakar khod kiya soochtay thay or samjhtay thay

"Al Hassan Ibn Ali came to Abu Bakr when he was upon the mimbar of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said 'Come down from my father's seat'. He said 'You have told the truth, it is your father's seat,' and he placed him in his lap and wept'. "

History of the Khalifahs who took the right away, by: Al Hafiz Jalaludin Suyuti. English translation by Abdasamad Clark Page 71. Taha Publishers

[Curious One 0]

App nay kuch batain Hz Ali or Janab-e-Fatima kay apas kay talluqat kay baray mei bhee key thee. Jinsay app sabit karna chah rahi thee kay agar woh hadith Rasool key kay jisnay fatima ko naraz kiya usnay mujhey naraz kiya. Agar Abu Bakar kay liyay apply hotie hai to Hz Ali kay liyay bhee. Uska jawab bhee sun lei.

Issay pehlay kay mei app ko jawab doon app ko quran kiya kehta hai Hz Ali or Janab-e-Fatima kay baray mei yeh bata doon.

He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together:

Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?

Out of them come Pearls and Coral:

Al-Qur'an, Surah 55, Ayah 19 - 22, translated by Yusufali

JIss rivier ka zikr hai quran mei woh Hz Ali or Janab-e-Fatima hai or woh coral or pearsl Imam Hassan or Imam Hussain hai. yeh baat apkey upni following kitabo say sabit hai.

Durre Manthur: Vol 6 Page 143

According to Ibn Abbas the two rivers mean 'Ali and Fatima. The barrier means the Holy Prophet and the pearl and coral mean Hasan and Husayn

Ya Nabi al Muwaddah: Chapter 39 Page 118

The companions and the Imams in exegesis of this verse say that Fatima and Ali are two deep rivers of the secrets of nature, rivers that do not overstep each other and the barrier between them is the Holy Prophet and the pearls and corals extracted from them are Hasan and Husayn.

To issay to sabit hogaya kay quran kiya ketha hai ab koie bhee hadith kuch bhee kehti rahey bekar hai. Iskay illawa mei app ko un haditho kay baray mei jo kitabo mei likha hia woh bhee sun lei.

Woh jin kitabo ka app nay zikr kiya woh sub hadithai un kitabo mei Bihar ul Anwar say ley gayee hai or Bihar mei Allama Majlisi nay naqal to kiya hai in hadihto ko lekin nikay baray mei likha kyia hai woh app bohat achay tareeqay say chopa gaye. Ap ko challenge hai kay app asal kitab kholai sub parhai or pihr decide karei. Is hadith ko likhnay kay baad allam Majlisi nay khod issay reject kar diya. Or phir upni ussi kitab mei ussi safhay per shaikh sadooq ka yeh jumla quote kiya hai kay 'We have no belief and trust in this tradition'. Iskay bawajood app aitraaz kar rahi ai.. bari herat key baat hai.

Doosray parhia app kay us hadit kay narrator kon hai Abu dhaar, or woh shorro is tarha hotie hai kay Abu dhar or narrate kartay hai kay woh or Jaffar bin Abi Talib jub abysinia migrate karnay kay baad wapis madinay a rahey thay.... To sub say pehlay to yeh bata doon Kay Abu Dhaar nay kabhi migrate he nahi kiya Abysinya. to Unki wapsi kaha say hogi??? Iska saboot bhee appkey hi kitabo mei mojood hai

Al Istiab (chapter Bab Jandab) Volume 1page 214

Al Isaba (chapter The latter Dhaal) Volume 4 page 64

Donno kitabai saaf saaf likhti hai kay Abu Dhaar kabhi ABy Sinya nahi gayee.

Iskay illawa orr bhee jawab doon app ko kiya? In riwyat kay ghalat honay kay or bhee kafai jawabat mojood hai? Agar chiaya hoon to batayega mei app ko farahm kar donga.

[ariba 0]

Curious One Posted Yesterday, 06:56 PM

  app ko or bhee boaht see ahadith app key kitabo say dey sakta hoon jinsay app ko pata chal jayega kay haqeeqat kiya hai agar app janna chahein.. lekin mei app key sari bataon ka jawab zara different tareeqay say dena chahonga.

Musnad Ibn Hanbal:

Hadhrat Fatima Zahra became angry at Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died, because she claimed her share in the Prophet's Estate of Fadak, and Abu Bakr rejected her claim"

Kanz:

Sayyida Fatima became upset at Abu Bakr as he denied giving her inheritance rights.

Sunan al Kabeera:

"Fatima became angry at Abu Bakr, and never spoke to Abu Bakr until she died"

Wafa al Wafa:

"Abu Bakr denied Fatima her right and she became angry never speaking to Abu Bakr until she died".

Issay sabit houa Janab-e-Faitma Naraz houiee thee theek hai??

Ibn Qutaybah Imamah wa al Siyasa safhay 14 pay kiya likhtay hia yeh bhee dekh lei:

"Fatima said 'When I meet my father the Prophet (s), then I shall' complain about the both of you (Abu Bakr and Umar), and said to Abu Bakr 'By Allah I shall curse you after every Salat".

App meri pehli baat ka jawab dein gay?woh yeh k kiya app ne fadak ya maal-e-fay kay masiel ko msajh liya hai ya abhi b Daoud A.S kay apne walid kay waris sann ne per app pakky hain?

Yeh pehly mujhay bata dein?App kay maslak ki ahadth b paish ki hain main ne.Aub b apko aiteraaz hai ya app aik aik kar ka inka inkar karty jain gay?

yeh apki bari books see li hui hain,jis book ka app keh rahy hain wo abhi tak mere pass nahin hai.

Baqi yeh jo app ne kuch quote kiye hain inn kay ref poory dein,page no bataien.

Narazgi per baat baad main lakin pehly warasat kay jari hone per baat hoo rahi hai.

Usska mujhay bataien

[ariba 0]

App nay kuch batain Hz Ali or Janab-e-Fatima kay apas kay talluqat kay baray mei bhee key thee. Jinsay app sabit karna chah rahi thee kay agar woh hadith Rasool key kay jisnay fatima ko naraz kiya usnay mujhey naraz kiya. Agar Abu Bakar kay liyay apply hotie hai to Hz Ali kay liyay bhee. Uska jawab bhee sun lei.

Ji mera kehne ka maqsad yeh tha k Agar Hazart ABu bakar ra kay filfaraz dil dukhane per un kay itne khilaaf hoo jana darust hai tou phir baqi loog jin see janab-e-sayeeda nazar hui ya jinhoo ne unko taleef di uss k baray main kiya khayal hai.

Apki apni books main kaie waqiyat hain aur jo hadith app ne shuru main likha aur main ne apko kaha tha k poori likhien wo b iss baray main hi hai K hazoor SAW ko khabar mili thi k hazart ali ra abu jahal ki baiti k sath shadi kar rahy hain.Tou Hazoor saw ne khutba diya tha jiski akhri lines app ne likh dein aur baqi sara chor diya.

Issay pehlay kay mei app ko jawab doon app ko quran kiya kehta hai Hz Ali or Janab-e-Fatima kay baray mei yeh bata doon.

Quraan Hazart Abu bakar ra aur sahaba ki jamat k baray main b bohut kuch kehta hai wo pata hai ya nahin??

Aur sab see pasand didah baat woh hai k "Hum un kay diloon ki ranjashoon ko dour kar dein gay aur wo bhai bhai hoo kar jannat main takhtoon per baithy hoon gay(Hajar).

He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together:

Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?

Out of them come Pearls and Coral:

Al-Qur'an, Surah 55, Ayah 19 - 22, translated by Yusufali

JIss rivier ka zikr hai quran mei woh Hz Ali or Janab-e-Fatima hai or woh coral or pearsl Imam Hassan or Imam Hussain hai. yeh baat apkey upni following kitabo say sabit hai.

Durre Manthur: Vol 6 Page 143

According to Ibn Abbas the two rivers mean 'Ali and Fatima. The barrier means the Holy Prophet and the pearl and coral mean Hasan and Husayn

Ya Nabi al Muwaddah: Chapter 39 Page 118

Unki fazelat see inkar nahin hai.Baat aik waqiyee ki hoo rahi hai.reason wohi hai jo main oper likh chuki hoon.iss kay mouqble main main Hazart ibne abbas ra samit kaie doosry moufasrin kay qoul yahan likh deti hoon jo hazart abu bakar ra ki fazeelat ko batain gay.

The companions and the Imams in exegesis of this verse say that Fatima and Ali are two deep rivers of the secrets of nature, rivers that do not overstep each other and the barrier between them is the Holy Prophet and the pearls and corals extracted from them are Hasan and Husayn.

Koon companion n imams??Cant guess!!

[ariba 0]

Woh jin kitabo ka app nay zikr kiya woh sub hadithai un kitabo mei Bihar ul Anwar say ley gayee hai or Bihar mei Allama Majlisi nay naqal to kiya hai in hadihto ko lekin nikay baray mei likha kyia hai woh app bohat achay tareeqay say chopa gaye. Ap ko challenge hai kay app asal kitab kholai sub parhai or pihr decide karei. Is hadith ko likhnay kay baad allam Majlisi nay khod issay reject kar diya. Or phir upni ussi kitab mei ussi safhay per shaikh sadooq ka yeh jumla quote kiya hai kay 'We have no belief and trust in this tradition'. Iskay bawajood app aitraaz kar rahi ai.. bari herat key baat hai.

Doosray parhia app kay us hadit kay narrator kon hai Abu dhaar, or woh shorro is tarha hotie hai kay Abu dhar or narrate kartay hai kay woh or Jaffar bin Abi Talib jub abysinia migrate karnay kay baad wapis madinay a rahey thay.... To sub say pehlay to yeh bata doon Kay Abu Dhaar nay kabhi migrate he nahi kiya Abysinya. to Unki wapsi kaha say hogi??? Iska saboot bhee appkey hi kitabo mei mojood hai

Al Istiab (chapter Bab Jandab) Volume 1page 214

Al Isaba (chapter The latter Dhaal) Volume 4 page 64

Donno kitabai saaf saaf likhti hai kay Abu Dhaar kabhi ABy Sinya nahi gayee.

Iskay illawa orr bhee jawab doon app ko kiya? In riwyat kay ghalat honay kay or bhee kafai jawabat mojood hai? Agar chiaya hoon to batayega mei app ko farahm kar donga

Iss behas main chalay tou bohut dour tak jain gay.phir main appki pehli hadith see shuru karti hoon.karoon?Zaroori tou nahin k sab hadith aik hi book see li gaie hoon.main ne aik book ka ref nahin diya hai apko.

Yeh app batain naa kis kis hadith ki baat kar rahy hain main tou kaee likh chuki hoon.

[ariba 0]

lakin iss see pehly app warast wali baat aur mere ten aitraaz kay jawab dein gay.

[Abu_Hanzala 2]

App ka yeh jo donno cheezo ko saht lekar chalna hai yeh ghalat hai. Jiss tarha Hazrat Ali or Hz Ayesha key jung houie lekin donno ko upni upni jaga sahi mantay hai app log. Hz Ali or Muawiya key jung houie hazaroo musalman marray gayee lekin donno upni jagga janti. Kumsay kum eik ko to ghalat mannay. Warna woh Hazaro musalamn jo un jungo mei marray gayee who kss kay kkhatay mei jayeingay. Issi tarha yeh fadak kay mamlay mei bhee research karkay haq ko tallash kare. Ya to jo Janab-e-syeda kay baray mei ahaidth hai unkay kirdar kay baray mei, rasool key ahadith unkay barya mei woh ghalat hongi. Ya phir mannay kay Abu Bakar ghalat thay

Just come to the point and answer in a proper and organized manner...u are just wasting ur time, dont beat about the bush.....come and reply with solid proofs from Quran and Hadith.!

Ariba>> JazaKALLAH

[Curious One 0]

Maal-e-Fai kay baray mei jo mei manta hoon who yeh hai jo neechay mei likh raha hoon

From what is left by parents and those nearest related there is a share for men and a share for women, whether the property be small or large,a determinate share.

Al-Qur'an, Surah an-Nisa, Ayah 7, translated by Yusufali

Quran kehta hai kay beti ko hisa milta hai, magar Hz Abu Bakar eik hadith paish kartay hai jiskay lehaz say nahi milna chaiyay. App bataiyay haidth ziada mautabir ya quran??

Ab log kehtay hai kay is qisam kay ahkam ummat kay ilyay hai paighambar kay liyay nahi.

The (Qur'an) is indeed the message, for thee and for thy people; and soon shall ye (all) be brought to account.

Al-Qur'an, Surah 43, Ayah 44, translated by Yusufal

Yahan pay yeh baat bhee saaf ho jati hai kay quran kiss kay liyay hai

App bacha app kay who sawal kay mei nabi key wirasat sirif nabowat hotie hai, ya dunyavi bhee, app ko mei nay pehlay bhee bohat say refernce diya lekin app phir wohee sawal kar rahi hai?

And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"

Or yeh list hai choti see ahl-e-sunnat key kitabo key jiss mei likha hai kay Suleman nay upnay walid kay dunyavi jaidad payee

Tafseer Khazan Volume 5 page 112, Surah Naml

Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 193 Surah Naml

Tafseer Rul al Ma'ani Part 19Page 170 Surah Naml

Tafseer Mazhari Part 16, Volume 7 page 100 Surah Naml

Tafseer Muraghee Part 19 page 127 Surah Naml

Tafseer Jauhar Volume 13 page 135 Surah Naml

Tafseer Gharab al Qur'an Part 18 page 88

Tafseer Kashaf Volume 3 page 140

Tafseer Mu'allim al Tanzeel under the commentary of Khazan Volume 5 page 112

Tafseer Fathooath al Ilayha Volume 3 page 202

Tareekh Abu'l Fida Volume 1 page24

Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya Volume 5 page 290

Thori or kitabai is baray mei kiya kehti hai who bhee sun lei

Tafseer Kashaf:

"Waris refers to Kingdom and Prophethood"

Al-Kashif, Vol. 3, Page 140

Tafseer Khazan:

"Sulayman was the Waris of Dawood's Kingdom, Knowledge and Prophethood"

Tafseer Durre Manthur:

"Sulayman inherited both Kingdom and knowledge"

Vol. 5, page 193

Gharab al Qur'an:

"The view on this verse is that inheritance here means the inheritance of possessions"

Tafseer Kabeer:

"The Ashab narrate that Allah (swt) sent some relics to Adam (as) which contained pictures of the Prophets, and these relics were inherited by the children of Adam, to the point that they reached Hadhrat Yaqoob (as)"Tafseer al-Kabeer, Vol. 2, Page 506 & 507

To issay sabit hogaya kay Prophet jo chortay hai woh sadqa nahi hota bulkay unki aulad ko milta hia wirsat mei. (Please note kariyga kay ismei nabowat nahi relics likha hai) matlab dunyavi jaidad bacho ko milli.

To David We gave Solomon (for a son),how excellent in Our service! Ever did he turn (to Us)!

Behold, there were brought before him, at eventide coursers of the highest breeding, and swift of foot;

Al-Qur'an, Surah Sa'd, Ayah 30 & 31, translated by Yusufali

Yeh horses ka jo zikr hai quran mei yeh inheritance thay iskay baray mei app key kitabai kiya kehti hai yeh bhee sun lei..

We read in Tafseer Ruh al Ma'ani: Vol. 23, Page 183

"Maqathil narrates that there were one thousand horses, and Sulayman inherited these (meaning yeh horses) from his father".

Gharab al Qur'an:

"Sulayman was the Waris of these horses from his father who attained this from Amaalka"

Hayaat al Haywan:

"The view of the majority of the Tafseer scholars is that Prophet Sulayman (as) attained one thousand horses, they were inheritance".

Ab app ka kehna hai kay nabowat milli wirasat mei to dekhai quran kiya kehta hai (iskay bohat saray jawabat dey sakta hoon lekin eik bohat he asan or simple sa jawab sunniya app)

Surah Anbiya 021.079:

To Solomon We inspired the (right) understanding of the matter: to each (of them) We gave Judgment and Knowledge;

Al-Qur'an, Surah 21, Ayah 79, translated by Yusufali

Surah Naml 027.015:

We gave (in the past) knowledge to David and Solomon: And they both said: "Praise be to Allah, Who has favoured us above many of his servants who believe!"

Al-Qur'an, Surah 27, Ayah 15, translated by Yusufali

Issay saaf sabit hota hai ya nahi kay dawood or sulayman eik he waqt mei nabi thay aisa nahi hai kay baap kay marnay kay baad betay ko wirasat mei mille ho nabowat ya ilm.

Jub marnay say phealy he mill choki thee to who kiya cheez hai jo marnay kay baad milli, matlab kuch dunyavi jaidad he thee jo milli. Issay sabit houa ya nahi. Ab hadith nahi hai quran hai issay to saaf saaf sabit hota hai kay jo kuch milla tha who shoror mei jin ayat ka zikr kiya hai wirasat kay silsilay mei woh nabowat ya knowledge nahi hai kiyonkay quran khod keh raha hai kay yeh to pehlay he dey choka tha.

AB or tafasir key kitabai bhee dekh lei (again yeh app key kitabai hai)

Praying: "O my Lord! infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with grey: but never am I unblest, O my Lord, in my prayer to Thee! Now I fear (what) my relatives (and colleagues) (will do) after me: but my wife is barren: so give me an heir as from Thyself,- (One that) will (truly) represent me, and represent the posterity of Jacob; and make him, O my Lord! one with whom Thou art well-pleased!"Al-Qur'an, Surah 19, Ayah 4 - 6, translated by Yusufali

'Yad Thana' in this verse means worldly possessions

As evidence, please refer to the following esteemed Sunni sources:

1.Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 2 page 467

2.Tafseer Kabeer Volume 5 page 521 verse 'Yad Thana'

3.Tafseer Khazan Volume 4 page 194

4.Ma'alim al Thanzeel bhar Hasheeya Khazan Volume 4 page 194

5.Tafseer Gharab al Qur'an Part 12 Page 38, Surah Maryam

6.Sahih Muslim Sharh Nawawi Volume 2 page 92

Tafseer Durre Manthur:

'Ibn Abbas narrates that 'Yad Thana' means someone to inherit my material possessions'

Tafseer Kabeer:

"The scholars al Saadi, Mujahid, Shaybi and narrators Ibn Abbas, Hasan and Dhaalik have stated that 'Yad Thana' means material possessions".

Gharab al Qur'an:

Ab bhee app ko or jawab chaiya to bataiya ga.

App yeh bhee dekh lei

[Curious One 0]

Ji mera kehne ka maqsad yeh tha k Agar Hazart ABu bakar ra kay filfaraz dil dukhane per un kay itne khilaaf hoo jana darust hai tou phir baqi loog jin see janab-e-sayeeda nazar hui ya jinhoo ne unko taleef di uss k baray main kiya khayal hai.

Apki apni books main kaie waqiyat hain aur jo hadith app ne shuru main likha aur main ne apko kaha tha k poori likhien wo b iss baray main hi hai K hazoor SAW ko khabar mili thi k hazart ali ra abu jahal ki baiti k sath shadi kar rahy hain.Tou Hazoor saw ne khutba diya tha jiski akhri lines app ne likh dein aur baqi sara chor diya.

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Pls app mera jawab doobara parhia mei nay saaf saaf sabit kar diya hai woh jiss hadith ka app zikr kar rahi hai woh ghalat hai fabricated hai, even jo app keh rahi hai kay Janab-e-Fatima kay naraz honay pay jo hadith ayee hai woh hazrat lai say narazgee per he ayee hai to app ko mei doobara sabit kar dekta hoon kay woh waqya jhoota hai kay hazrat Ali say narazgi ouie thee app merea pehlay diya houa jawab doobara parh lei.

Woh jin kitabo ka app nay zikr kiya woh sub hadithai un kitabo mei Bihar ul Anwar say ley gayee hai or Bihar mei Allama Majlisi nay naqal to kiya hai in hadihto ko lekin inkay baray mei likha kyia hai woh app bohat achay tareeqay say chopa gaye. Ap ko challenge hai kay app asal kitab kholai sub parhai or pihr decide karei. Is hadith ko likhnay kay baad allam Majlisi nay khod issay reject kar diya. Or phir upni ussi kitab mei ussi safhay per shaikh sadooq ka yeh jumla quote kiya hai kay 'We have no belief and trust in this tradition'. Iskay bawajood app aitraaz kar rahi ai.. bari herat key baat hai.

Doosray parhia app kay us hadit kay narrator kon hai Abu dhaar, or woh shorro is tarha hotie hai kay Abu dhar or narrate kartay hai kay woh or Jaffar bin Abi Talib jub abysinia migrate karnay kay baad wapis madinay a rahey thay.... To sub say pehlay to yeh bata doon Kay Abu Dhaar nay kabhi migrate he nahi kiya Abysinya. to Unki wapsi kaha say hogi??? Iska saboot bhee appkey hi kitabo mei mojood hai

Al Istiab (chapter Bab Jandab) Volume 1page 214

Al Isaba (chapter The latter Dhaal) Volume 4 page 64

Donno kitabai saaf saaf likhti hai kay Abu Dhaar kabhi ABy Sinya nahi gayee.

Iskay illawa orr bhee jawab doon app ko kiya? In riwyat kay ghalat honay kay or bhee kafai jawabat mojood hai? Agar chiaya hoon to batayega mei app ko farahm kar donga.

Edited May 19, 2006 by Curious One

[ariba 0]

I am busy with my exams!!Will be back after 20 May InshaAllah!!

[Curious One 0]

It's ok, no problem at all.

[bhaloo 0]

I want to reply Ms Ariba Question

IS SHIA KAFIR

A.A

Sab say Pehlay I want to ask kay Ms Ariba aap karti kiya hein I mean kay aaj ki tough life mein kisi kay pass itna extra time nahi hay kay Sectarianism ko discuss karey aur Pehlay say mojood conflicts ko aur barhaey.

I know kay aap ka answer yeh ho ga kay apney Religion ko discuss karney mein time waste nahi hota, I agree laikin hamara mazhab hamein yeh nahi kehta kay aapas mein lartey raho aur har firqa dosray ko Kafir sabit karney mein time sarf karey balkay hamara Religion to hamein Unity ka Dars daita hay na kay aapas mein hi lartey raho yehi reason hai kay non Muslims aaj Muslims par khul kar hanstey hein kay inhein koi aur kaam to hay hi nahi,Yehi wajah hai kay jab koi non-muslim Islam qaboolkarna chahte hay to Pehlay Quran say rujoo karta hay magar us say bhi Pehlay who muslims ko dekhta hay kay yeh Role model hoon gay magar hamari taraf deekh kar usy sakht afsoos hota hai ki in ki Kitab aur in mein itna difference hai.

Kiya hamarey pass sarey important issues khatam ho Gaye hein kay hum “Is Shia Kafir” jaisay topic KO discuss karnay aur aik dosray ko Kafir sabit karnay mein lag gaye hein.

Ab yeh sochnay mein time waste mat karien kay mein kis Sect ki believer hoon to listen………. I am proud to be a true Muslim.

Meri aap say itni request hay kay apni researches ko kisi scientific kaam mein use karein aaj kal Muslims ko is ki sakht zarorat hai isi liye to hamari Qom develop nahi hoti kay hum larnay sey hi farigh nahi hotay

Bye

[Abu_Hanzala 2]

I will reply soon inshaAllah.....

[ariba 0]

I want to reply Ms Ariba Question

  IS SHIA KAFIR

A.A

      Sab say Pehlay I want to ask kay Ms Ariba aap karti kiya hein I mean kay aaj ki tough life mein kisi kay pass itna extra time nahi hay kay Sectarianism ko discuss karey aur Pehlay say mojood conflicts ko aur barhaey.

I know kay aap ka answer yeh ho ga kay apney Religion ko discuss karney mein time waste nahi hota, I agree laikin hamara mazhab hamein yeh nahi kehta kay aapas mein lartey raho aur har firqa dosray ko Kafir sabit karney mein time sarf karey balkay hamara Religion to hamein Unity ka Dars daita hay na kay aapas mein hi lartey raho yehi reason hai kay non Muslims aaj Muslims par khul kar hanstey hein kay inhein koi aur kaam to hay hi nahi,Yehi wajah hai kay jab koi non-muslim Islam qaboolkarna chahte hay to Pehlay Quran say rujoo karta hay magar us say bhi Pehlay who muslims ko dekhta hay kay yeh Role model hoon gay magar hamari taraf deekh kar usy sakht afsoos hota hai ki in ki Kitab aur in mein itna difference hai.

          Kiya hamarey pass sarey important issues khatam ho Gaye hein kay hum “Is Shia Kafir” jaisay topic KO discuss karnay aur aik dosray ko Kafir sabit karnay mein lag gaye hein.

    Ab yeh sochnay mein time waste mat karien kay mein kis Sect ki believer hoon to listen………. I am proud to be a true Muslim.

Meri aap say itni request hay kay apni researches ko kisi scientific kaam mein use karein aaj kal Muslims ko is ki sakht zarorat hai isi liye to hamari Qom develop nahi hoti kay hum larnay sey hi farigh nahi hotay

    Bye

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WELCOME TO CY!!U R FIRST POST IS SUPERB!!THANKS FOR DISCOURAGE.

Poora parh tou lien Miss ariba ne nahin yeh Hnazala ne Is shia kafir topic ka naam rakha hai.Wo apko in shaAllah iska behtreen jawab dein gay.

Mere khayal main sahe ko sahe kehna aur ghalat ko ghalat kehna ain eman hai.Main Sahaba(Rizwan Allah alehim ajmaieen) aur doosre kaee topics per ghalat bayani ko bardasht nahin kar sakti aur mera eman hai k Sahaba ki jamat see meri mouhabbat meri nijaat ka zariya bane gi INSHAALLAH!!

Baqi Islam kiya kehta hai yeh mujhay b Alhamdulilah pata hai.

Lar koon raha hai??Atleast main to nahin

Jiski zaroorat hai woh b kar hi rahy hain Alhamdulilah.

Baqi main kiya karti hoon?tou main agar app kahin tou Dr. Abdul Qadeer ki seat smabhal loon??

Dont get personal!!

Aur kaye jawab hain lakin wo off topic hain.waise b u r our guest,new commer so we can only WELCOME U WARMLY!

Stay Cool!Enjoy!

[ariba 0]

Maal-e-Fai kay baray mei jo mei manta hoon who yeh hai jo neechay mei likh raha hoon

From what is left by parents and those nearest related there is a share for men and a share for women, whether the property be small or large,a determinate share.

Al-Qur'an, Surah an-Nisa, Ayah 7, translated by Yusufali

Quran kehta hai kay beti ko hisa milta hai, magar Hz Abu Bakar eik hadith paish kartay hai jiskay lehaz say nahi milna chaiyay. App bataiyay haidth ziada mautabir ya quran??

Mall Fay ko app waisa hi maal smajhty hain jaisa k aik admi ki apni malkiyat ka maal ?Jab k Quraan ussk mousarif bata raha hai.Agar wo aisa hi hota jaisa k aik admi ka apna maal tou phir uska zikar alag see kiun kiya Quraan ne??

Imam jaffar sadaq reh farmaty hain"Anfaal wo maal hain jin per lashkar kashi na ki jaye.ya koe qoom sulah see day day.har qisam ki zameen rasool kay qabze main hoo gi phir uss kay qabze main jo apka khalifa hoo ga wo jahan chahye usko kharach karepus hazoor k baad khuda aur rasool ka hissa ouli lil amar ko mily ga batoor warasat kay aur aik usko hissa minjanb Allah mily ga(Asool-e-kafi.pg439)

Main ne apni book ki bajay apki book see likha lakin app ne man ne see inkar kar diya.

App ne Quraan ko man na shuru kar diya hai.MashaAllah!!Aub plz inkar mat kijay ga kisi b ayat ka.

Ab log kehtay hai kay is qisam kay ahkam ummat kay ilyay hai paighambar kay liyay nahi.

Baat tou tab hai jab wo haqiqi tor per warast wala maal hoo.Wiase b i told u k jo khalifa bane ga ussy hi milta raha sab kuch chahye.sari ayat b un k baray main hain jinko sath main nabouwat b mili.

Yahan pay yeh baat bhee saaf ho jati hai kay quran kiss kay liyay hai

App bacha app kay who sawal kay mei nabi key wirasat sirif nabowat hotie hai, ya dunyavi bhee, app ko mei nay pehlay bhee bohat say refernce diya lekin app phir wohee sawal kar rahi hai?

sool-e-kafi 665 page per imam jafar saqad ne farmaya"suleman daoud kay waris huay aur muhammad(saw) sulemaan kay.aur hum muhammad kay waris hain humaray pass tourat zaboor aur alwah-e-mousa(as) ka ilm hai.

Issi terha ki doosri rawayat same page per,Imam jafar ne farmaya k tamam anbiya kay waris hazart daoud huay phir unkay waris sulemaan huay,muhammad Sulemaan kay waris bane aur hum unkay waris hain.humaray pass alwah-e-mousa aur suhaf-e-ibrahim hain.

Tou app yeh bataine k Hazoor saw kaise bun gay hazart sulemaan kay waris?kiya unka koe rishta tha?

App baar baar wohi baat repeat kiye ja rahy hain.meri previous post ko achi terha parh lein plz.Sare jawab mil jain gay us main.

Aur app yeh b batain k phir warast wali hadith ka kiya karin??Uska kiya jawab dein gay app?ya usko jhoti sabit kar dein gay?

[ariba 0]

Pls app mera jawab doobara parhia mei nay saaf saaf sabit kar diya hai woh jiss hadith ka app zikr kar rahi hai woh ghalat hai fabricated hai, even jo app keh rahi hai kay Janab-e-Fatima kay naraz  honay pay jo hadith ayee hai woh hazrat lai say narazgee per he ayee hai to app ko mei doobara sabit kar dekta hoon kay woh waqya jhoota hai kay hazrat Ali say narazgi ouie thee app merea pehlay diya houa jawab doobara parh lei.

Woh jin kitabo ka app nay zikr kiya woh sub hadithai un kitabo mei Bihar ul Anwar say ley gayee hai or Bihar mei Allama Majlisi nay naqal to kiya hai in hadihto ko lekin inkay baray mei likha kyia hai woh app bohat achay tareeqay say chopa gaye. Ap ko challenge hai kay app asal kitab kholai sub parhai or pihr decide karei. Is hadith ko likhnay kay baad allam Majlisi nay khod issay reject kar diya. Or phir upni ussi kitab mei ussi safhay per shaikh sadooq ka yeh jumla quote kiya hai kay 'We have no belief and trust in this tradition'. Iskay bawajood app aitraaz kar rahi ai.. bari herat key baat hai.

Doosray parhia app kay us hadit kay narrator kon hai Abu dhaar, or woh shorro is tarha hotie hai kay Abu dhar or narrate kartay hai kay woh or Jaffar bin Abi Talib jub abysinia migrate karnay kay baad wapis madinay a rahey thay.... To sub say pehlay to yeh bata doon Kay Abu Dhaar nay kabhi migrate he nahi kiya Abysinya. to Unki wapsi kaha say hogi??? Iska saboot bhee appkey hi kitabo mei mojood hai

Al Istiab (chapter Bab Jandab) Volume 1page 214

Al Isaba (chapter The latter Dhaal) Volume 4 page 64

Donno kitabai saaf saaf likhti hai kay Abu Dhaar kabhi ABy Sinya nahi gayee.

Iskay illawa orr bhee jawab doon app ko kiya? In riwyat kay ghalat honay kay or bhee kafai jawabat mojood hai? Agar chiaya hoon to batayega mei app ko farahm kar donga.

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Aik aur behas!!App hadith likhein sari tamam raviyoon ka sath phir batain k koonsa ravi kaahn per zuaf aya hai.phir baat hoogi.

Allama majlasi ki koe book abhi tak main ne nahin parhi aur na hi uss see hadith li hai.Baqi yeh waqiya apki books main b likha hua hai.iss k ilwa aur b dono ki narazgi k waqyat hain.unka inkar b kar dein gay.main inshaAllah next post main wo naqal kar doon gi.

[ariba 0]

Ibn-e-baboyah ne moutabar sanad k sathHazart Sadaq reh see lambi hasith rawayat ki hai k kisis ne qasamien kha kar Hazart Fatimah ra ko bataya k hazart ali ra abu jahal ki baiti see shadi karne waly hain.app naraz hoo gain aur maiky main agaien.Hazoor saw ne waja pochi to jab sourat-e-hal ka ilm hua tou app ne foran shadi k gawahan ko bulaya phir unk samne hazart Ali ra ko farmaya"Aye ali shaid tou nahin jatna k fatimah mere badan ka tukra hai aur main iss see hoon jis ne isko satay us ne mujhay sataya(jala ul ayoonPg 151)

Yeh narazgi b tou rahi naa iss see hazart Ali ka eman rukhsat nahin hua tou phir Hazart Abu bakar k sath aisi dushmani kiun?Hazoor saw ne hazart Ali ra ko yeh tou nahin kaha k tera eman rukhsat hoo gaya hai.

For a second incident see bookalal alsharae aur bashar-e-ril Mustafa.

Kasahaf ghuma main hai k hazart Fatima ra ne hazoor saw se shikayat ki k jo Hazart ali kamaty hain fuqara main bant daity hain ..............yahan per b narazgi ka qisa lay kar ain tou kis kis k eman per harf aya??

[ariba 0]

jis ko app manty hain uss per jo objection lagay hain wo b aur sath main objection n answers soon inshaAllah

[Dako 0]

hmm great man!

[Abu Abdullah 0]

jis ko app manty hain uss per jo objection lagay hain wo b aur sath main objection n answers soon inshaAllah

Dear Ariba, Rukh, Emman, Hanzallah,

I have read the entire posts. 3 days & 4 nights. Is this discussion over? I thought this was the tip of the ice berg. Please inform me.

regards,

Abu Abdullah

[Waqas 48]

Abu Abdullah what you want to say? be clear

[ariba 0]

Dear Ariba, Rukh, Emman, Hanzallah,

I have read the entire posts. 3 days & 4 nights. Is this discussion over? I thought this was the tip of the ice berg. Please inform me.

regards,

Abu Abdullah

Well!!From this topic some of my prescious n very straightforward replies had been deleted bcoz of problem faced by forums:SAD:

May be main wo dobara likhoon b tou waisa likh na hoo.

We decided to take topics one by one n there was one discussed.i posted my arguements n did not get any answer from their side......

So topic went un noticed....

U want to ask something about This Topic??

Edited February 13, 2007 by ariba

[Abu Abdullah 0]

"We decided to take topics one by one n there was one discussed.i posted my arguements n did not get any answer from their side......

So topic went un noticed....

U want to ask something about This Topic??

Waqas Posted Yesterday, 05:58 PM

Abu Abdullah what you want to say? be clear"

Assalam-alaikum

Would you be kind enough to send the posts which you did not because there was an absence of a debate. I am concentrating on the descrepancy created in the middle of first, second and third century Hijri.

By grace of Allah Subhanhatala, there are people who have got arabic transcripts of earlier "Manazara" Debate. I will get them Inshallah. Allah Subhanahtala ney DEEN mukamal kia beshek. Jaisey key Khutaba Hajatul wida mein Nabi Sallahualehi Walahe wasalm ney farmaya.

We need to identify the illusionists who merged greek and persian philosophy in Islam. This is not with only one sect but there numerous people who deliberately created "doubts" in other wise PURE religion.

May ALLAH Subhanahtala hamein hidayat naseeb karey-Ameen.

Abu Abdullah