fati 0 Posted June 6, 2003 ooky ap ko kiya lagta hay? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 6, 2003 Salaam! shani> for ur kind info, i'm not from Ahle Sunna coz they have very strange faiths and r just so-called Ahle-Sunnas but r actually Ahle-Peers :D its up to us what we think is best abt Ilyaseen or Alyaseen. Allah maaf karnay wala hay agar main ghalat hua ya aap ghalat hua. just a lil confusion. nothing all :;): Siha Sitta r considered reliable from all aspects in all the Muslims around the world. same is it with Tafseer Ibne Katheer. coz many other Tafaseers had been proved wrong and they r not, in reality, tafseers but their own thinkings. As i mentioned, Ibne Katheer mentioned both points, Alyaseen and Ilyaseen and explained abt Ilyaseen but didnt emphasize that its Il or Al. it could b any. anyhow, i only believe in Quran and Sunnat i.e. Hadith coz it is complete for us and no need of any other thing. And Siha Sitta includes Ahadith. About the dates of 10th Muharram, Quran main he likha hay k hum nay maheenay 12 he banaay hain. Jews nay phir kyoon us din Roza rakha tha? Saheeh Bukhari kee hadith hay k Hazoor aik bastee say guzar rahay thay k wahan k Jews nay us din roza rakha tha. jab poocha to un Jews nay bataya k is din Hazrat Moosa AS Pharoah say azaad huay thay. to aap SAW nay farmaya k woh to mairay bhai thay aur mujh say ziada qareeb hain to maira un par ziada Haq banta hay. laikin phir unhon nay siraf 10 Muharram ko naheen roza rakha k kaheen Jews kee copy na ho jaay. is lyay 9+10 ya 10+11 kaa roza rakhnay ka hukam dya. kuch Hadith say yeh bhee milta hay Hazoor SAW nay farmaya k yeh Musalmanon k lyay Khushee ka din hay. phir hum kyoon us din gham manayin woh bhee har saal. theek hay aik baar, do baar, teen baar; har baar he bain karain to ajeeb baat naheen? jab kisee k waalid ya walda fot hotay hain to woh un k barsee par har saal to naheen roa peeta karta. bohot hua 5 saal ya 10 saal, 1400 saal??? aur qyamat tak? :D fati> welcome back... nice to see u once again. lol..... i also agree with u that i post toooooo long posts :D anywayz, abt the discussion, i had no choice to shorten it but guess what, i still divided it in short :P i suggest u read all the previous posts of me and shani, then u can attend our discussion easily as u'll know what we had talked abt it b4. baat to saheeh hay k hum discussion say kafee door nikal gaay hain. baat to yeh ho rahee thee k Hazrat Hussain RA kee shahadat 10th Muharram ko naheen huee thee. pichlee posts main aap proof chahtay hain to practical work bhee dya gya hay bold fonts main. u can try it by ur ownself. And also do tell me ur results... About Imam Khumainee, sorry to say, but just yesterday, i came to know something abt him abt what he said in his book..... mmm! i dont remember the name but i will tell u if u wish........ that he said Nabee-e-Akram SAW nay apnee nabooat kaa poora Haq ada naheen kya tha. unhon nay hum tak pooree baatain naheen pohonchaee theen. pooree batain to humain Imamon nay pohonchaeen. Saheeh Bukhari ya Muslim kee hadith hay k Hazrat Ayesha RA nay farmaya k jis nay kaha k Hazoor SAW nay kuch chupaya to us ka Imaan naaqis hay. isy tarah Qur'an main he Allah nay kaha hay k Nabee ko jo ilm-e-ghaib milta hay, unhon nay sab aagay pohonchaya. Wallah-u-aalam!!! posts phir say lambee ho gaee hay :) ooky> ooky dear, pehlay pichla bhee parh lo phir batao k AAP ko kya LAGTA hay :D waiting anxiously for ur reply :;): k every1! C Ya! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 6, 2003 Salamz... welcum ..! nice to see u ppl.. if u r not ahlay sunna then ????..so u still believe na tht it might be Al Yasin..if u have rite prestige of Ahlayait a.s. then itz enough..:) however..u may reciete it Al yasin without any fikar..it wud not be a sin..! :) and also..we believe tht Quran and Ahlaybait a.s. r the two left to us by Holy prophet SAWW .. and i hve read in many books abt it regardiing Hujjatulwida and we believe so..as u have to agree tht Ahadiths of Mohammad SAW can never collapse with Ahlaybaits if Hadiths r ritely quoted..!.. so we believe Quran and Ahlaybait a.s. r enough ..( it never meanz tht we r trying to degrade Ahadithz bcuz Ahlaybait a.s. actually acted wat rite Ahadiths r ). and i wud still say tht there might be wrong dates with wrong hadithes no matter quoted by Bukhari rehmatullah aleh..! Wallah o Alam...! i may also present hadith here tht wen Jibraeel a.s. came to Mohammad SAWW and told Him abt Hussain a.s. 'z shahadat..he mourned..! so mourning is a Sunnah! ALSO MY DEAR..lissen abt the mouring of Imam Hussian a.s. till qayamat..jus lissen tht there r two Zabih'z in Islamic history..one leads to the happy day till qayamat and other leads to the mourning way till qayamat..( as both r essential in human nature so in Islam ) .. Hazrat Ismail a.s. who got life and dunba was slaughtered..so we celebate Eid ul Azha a happy day..and Imam Hussain a.s. who himself with His family was martyred...so mourning till qayamat..isis tarah main kahoon kay ( nazobillah ) aik baar do baar teen baar eid ul azha mana laitay....so consider my point..and also u can concern with ur own ulmas too..they wud convince u urself...! and lissen..Harat Hussain a.s. ha much much higher hounour then our parents or even our lives..so don't compare His mourn to tht of our parentz or watever..! and abt Imam Khumeni ..from where u got this quote...u might have mis quoted it..! no one ..not even ANYONE can claim this bcuz Allah in His very Own Book..has declared ( Today we completed ur deen and chose Islam as ur religion )..jahan tak Imam a.s. ka taluq hay..to Imam , Mohammad SAW ki taeed yani tafaseer to khol kar bayan karnay kay liyay aay...rehti duniya tak Imam ka hona zarori hay..bcuz rehti duniya tak new problems wud arise and Imam shud be there to solve them ..jus in the ligth of Quran and Sunnah..and therefore we say Quran and Ahlaybait a.s. r enough..! and tell me one thing do u believe tht Mohammad SAWW was gifted with all the charateristics of all apostles or not.. more commentry later C ya.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 6, 2003 they r not reliable among us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 6, 2003 meeri i will read those posts later. jews ke rozay per confirm kar lon main. aur ya kis na kaha hay ke nazobillah Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) na naboot ka haq nahi pora kia. jo ya kehta hay wo mulim hi nahi. haddeth ki hifazat ki zamanat nahi hay. hazoor (saw) ka door ke bad bohat sa logon na hadesain ghari hain. insan ki common sense bhi koi cheez hoti hay. look meeri discussion about azadari aur mourning is of no use becoz u r goona accept it and v r not gonna deny it.and secondly if somebody mourns even then he is a muslim and if somebody doesnt he is also a muslim. so these things are not a nig deal. so discuss something bigger the dates too. and i dont know what type of and qulaity of scholars u r meeting with. but i can say for sure. they dont know anything. imam khumeni ke baray main joap na kaha hay thats not reliable. tell me the books name. aur kon sa practical work bold fonts main?? comparing imam hussains mourning to parents. dont tell me. mourning is not a joke. imam hussain ki mourning koi aam baat nahi. imam hussain ki mourning mehaz is liya nahi hoti ke wo shaheed hoay thay , un per jo zulm kia gaiy u cant compare it with any. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 6, 2003 and plzz keep ur discussion brief at a time. u know i cant read it all and reply to it too. aik waqt main aik baat per discussion karo. yazeed. mourning, yaseen, not too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 7, 2003 Salaamz shani! nice to see u too. its been nice to have a discussion under manners and not like illiterate ppl who just become aggressive and start saying *****..... :) Anyway, plz dont make ur comments short. u know i will have to wait for more. so better try to express ur thinkings all.... samajh rahay hain na? ok! i'll tell u what i am. i'm neither shia nor sunni. then what? I'm .... u can say ..... much influenced with ...... Ahl-e-Hadith :) now i know if u'll tell ur Alims abt this, they'll say "O! Stay away from Him! They r very dangerous" etc just like all Sunnis including dayobandees and baraylwees etc say. Ahlehadith only follows Quran and Sunnat. they dont need anything else. and they only believe in true hadith not za'eef or mozoo' ones. aur in main aik baat yeh bhee hay k agar koi bataay ya in ko pata chalay k aap k aalim nay to yeh baat kee hay jo k Qur'an aur Hadith say sarasar takratee hay to woh foran kahay ga k main us kee baat rad karta hoon. yeh naheen k haan, woh theek hain, baaqee sab ghalat hain. they r straight forward. this is just a lil introduction of ahlehadith to u. now what do u think, is there anything wrong? I cannot say whether its definitely Ilyaseen or Alyaseen but as i think it is Ilyaseen due to my thinking coz majority of ulmas say it is Ilyaseen. and i'm talking abt those ulmas who were really ulmas not like today ones. shareeat ka qaeda hay k saheeh ulma kee majority jis baat ka kahain to woh maanee jatee hay. and yes! u can also recite Ilyaseen without any fikar :;): jaisa k aap nay kaha k Ahlebait ke baat bhee hadith he hay kyoon k woh hadith k followers thay. sochnay kee baat hay k jin ko woh follow kartay hain un ko follow karnay main kya harj hay? aap direct kyoon naheen un ko follow kartay? aur agar aap ahlebait ko he follow karrahay hain to woh bhee Hazoor SAW ko follow kartay thay. Quraish-e-Mecca bhee yehee kaha kartay thay k hum Allah ko mantay hain magar yeh jo but hain Allah tak pohonchnay ka wasila hain. jab k Allah nay is baat ko ghalat kaha hay. aur is ko kufar kaha jata hay. yehee haal humaray aaj kal k musalmanon ka hay k peeron mureedon k paas jaa kar apnee hajat manga kartay thay. KYA HUMARAY LYAY ALLAH HE KAFEE NAHEEN??? isy tarah KYA HUMARAY LYAY RASOOL-E-AKRAM SAW HE KAFEE NAHEEN? un ko to Allah nay dunya o aakhrat kaa sardar bana kar bhaija. woh to rasoolon k bhee Imam thay. to phir un ko chore kar dosron k peechay kyoon bhagay phirtay hain? abt the mourning of Hazoor SAW, plz give me some proof. kisee ailee mailee kitab ka reference na dain bulkay saheeh kutub ka reference dain k kahan likha hay? aur aagay peechay bhee sab bataain k kya likha hay. jahaan tak Eid-ul-Azha kaa taaluq hay, woh to Hazoor SAW manaya kartay thay. Eid-ul-Azha k baray main to Allah nay kaha hay k hum nay phir usay qyamat tak anay walay logon k lyay misaal bana dee. Eid-ul-Azha ka munkar Islam say khaarij ho ga. Eid-ul-Azha main khushee hay magar aisee khushee naheen k jo ronay peetnay ka opposite kaha ja sakay. bus, us din sab khush nazar aatay hain. yeh to hum logon kee banaee huee hay k dhol dhamakkay aur naach gaanay waghaira say khushee manatay hain haalaan k yeh bilkul durust naheen. jahaan tak Hazrat Hussain RA kee wafat ka taalluq hay, woh to hum aur aap nay apnay lyay ghum ka din banaya hua hay. is gham main shamil na honay wala Islam say khaarij naheen hota (bulkay aik bidaat say mehfooz rehta hay :P ). yeh aap maannay ko tayyar hain k Saheeh Bukhari main taareekh ghalat ho gee jo k bilkul mustanad kitaab hay, yeh maannay ko tayyar naheen k hum jo sunee sunaaee baat ko maan rahay hain k woh 10 Muharram ko qatal kardyay gaay, woh theek hay. ajeeb baat hay! humain yeh naheen sochna chahyay k acha! phir to humaray aba-o-ajdaad ghalat hon gay. woh to theek thay. woh kaisay ghalat ho saktay hain. yehee baat to Qur'an main kahee gaee hay k woh apnay aba-o-ajdaad k deen par chaltay hain aur aakhrat main Allah say kahain gay k hum to apnay buzurgon kee baat ko maantay aay is lyay bhatak gaay. ab too humain maaf karday. laikin Allah kahain gay k ab kuch naheen ho sakta. aur woh apnay logon say lardain gay. aur kahain gay k in ko dugna azab day... humain logon k peechay naheen chalna chahyay. aqal istamal karnee chahyay. log ahlebait ko mantay hain aur un ko follow kartay hain to hum bhee karnay lag jaain? agar ahlebait say koi poochta k kya hum Hazoor SAW ko chore kar aap kee pairwee karain to un ka kya jawab hota? sochyay aur ghor kee jyay.... daikha! aap bhee is baat ko samajhtay hain k Hazoor SAW hum tak sab kuch puhuncha chukay hain. Imam Khumainee itnay baray aalim hotay huay kyoon aisee baat kar saktay hain? is ka matlab to yehee k woh aalim na huay. main aap ko unqareeb reference doon ga aur agar yeh baat sach niklee to phir? :) Imam ka hona zaroori naheen, bohot zaroori hay. Nabee-e-Akram SAW nay farmaya ulma nabeeon k waaris hain aur nabee to maal naheen chore kar jatay. woh ilm choretay hain. isay jahaan paao apna samajh kar haasil karo. ab sochnay kee baat yeh hay k humain kis Imam kee pairwee karnee chahyay? aap yeh baat achee tarah samajhtay hain k jo Imamon kaa bhee Imam ho, woh sab say afzal hay aur aap usee kee pairwee karnay kee koshish karain gay. maira hint aap zaroor samajh gaay hon gay. aap kee baat bilkul durust hay k woh logon ko masla bataain aur woh bhee Quran aur Sunnat kee roshnee main. issay hat kar koi baat karay to usay rad karna ho ga. Islam aik aisa deen hay jis ka Khuda aik, kitab aik, nabee aik, imam aik, qom aik, neiz har cheez aik. ab agar koi ahlebait ko manay, koi khulfa rashideen ko manay, koi kisee ko aur koi kisee ko to is tarah aik naheen rehtay. aur is main tafarqay paida ho jatay hain. aap mairee baat samajh rahay hain na? umeed to hay k bilkul achee tarah samajh rahay hon gay. Yes! i believe that Prophet Muhammad SAW was gifted all the characteristics of all Apostles or maybe some more too. why? whats ur point? willing to hear it soon..... O fati> as u said abt Iran, do u know how Shiaism become common there? do u know the history? i just recently came to know abt it. and will tell u soon. but first, i wish to hear it from u. and what abt ur ideas? what do u think abt our discussion. its nice to have more than two commentators. :) About mourning example of Hazrat Yaaqoob AS or any other Apostle, that was the time b4 Islam. e.g. Prophet David and Prophet Sulaiman were the apostles who were Kings but after Islam, Kingship is forbidden. Badshahat haram hay. isy tarah woh bhee pehlay kee baat ho gee. bulkay ronay say aap ko kon mana karraha hay? rona jaaiz hay. bilkul jaaiz hay. agar insaan ko apnay par qaaboo na rahay to bhee koi baat naheen par yeh baat bhee maannee ho gee k woh baiqaboo hay :D . laikin apnay aap ko maarna peetna moon say nazaiba kalimat kehna etc. bilkul jaaiz naheen. Enough for now....! will b with u soon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 7, 2003 fati> oh sorry, i forgot to reply to ur post.... what did u meant by they r not reliable among us? and abt the one who said about nabooat of Prophet Muhammad SAW, it is Imam Khumainee who is known as the gr8est Imam of Muslims. abhee to yeh baat he pata chalee, mairay parents nay us kee books k kuch part parhay thay to woh toba karnay lagay. bahar haal, main kuch ziada naheen comments karta un k baray main laikin jahan tak mujhay pata chala hay to woh kaee cheezain khud hee bana lya kartay thay. e.g. during war, mujahideen ko galay main keys pehna kar bhaij daytay thay k yeh jannat kee chabyan hain. i'm not confirmed abt this and i want to know it from u if it is right or not kyoon k yeh siraf sunee sunaee baatain he hain. LOL....! abt the scholars i'm meeting with, i'm totally satisfied with them. some r certified Scholars from Madinah University and some have learned many things from pk. however, i've been with most of the categorial scholars but i find much truth with these ones. they always give complete satisfying answers to any questions and i find day-by-day week-by-week, ppl embarassing them and saying that they were following the darkness. some r shias, dyobandees, baraylwees, naqshbandees, etc and even tableeghees and jamaat-e-islami's kaarkunaan. they r maasha Allah spreading so fastly and what they r spreading is not patriotism to one jama'at but to Qur'an and Sunnah nothing else... abt the practical, its mentioned in my previous posts just to verify that was Hazrat Hussain RA able to reach from Mecca to Karbala within only 20 days alongwith women and children or not. it is written in bold fonts and u can find it easily. after it, plz tell me ur conclusions too. rona to jaaiz hay. bilkul jaaiz hay. Hazoor SAW bhee roay thay bohot say moqa par. laikin peetna pitana aur pharna phoorna, is k baray main ahadith say yehee milta hay k jaaiz naheen. jis tarah aaj kal shia hazrat aur kuch aur hazrat apnay aap ko lahoo luhaan kardaytay hain. issay to saaf jahalat tapaktee hay. theek hay, aap ko agar bohot he ziada gham hay to aap ro saktay hain laikin apnay ooper farz na karlain k bus mohobbat zaahir karnay k lyay rona he hay. is tarah to Hazrat Umer RA bhee to shaheed kyay gaay thay. un ko bhee to bohot dukh mila tha. itnay zakham ho gaay thay k jab doodh (milk) pilaya to zakhmon say nikalnay laga tha. baihoshee kee haalat main thay aur un ko hosh main lana bhee zaroori tha kyoon k tabeeb nay kaha tha k un ko hosh main zaroor laaya jaay. har tarah koshish karrahay thay laikin aik sahabee nay kaha k "ay umer! tumharee namaz mukammil naheen huee" foran aankh kholee aur kehnay lagay k mujhay dubara wozoo karaya jaay. aur bhee bohot see parashanyan mileen unhain, un kee wafat par kyoon naheen roya jaata jab k woh bhee to humaray parents say barh kar hain. abt Hazrat Usman RA, un k baray main bhee pehlay bataya jaa chuka hay. sab kuch bata dya hay magar shaayd k aap nay parha naheen ya mairee baat samajh na sakay. bahar haal, ab to briefing karna bhee mushkil hay. ab guzara karain :D ok every1! g2g!!! Bye Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cute_ooky 0 Posted June 7, 2003 Mujhe lagta hai..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 7, 2003 ooky dear, kya lagta hay humain bhee to batao. :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 8, 2003 meeri first of all read the tafseer of quran then go for sunnat. becoz quran is unchangeable whereas sunnat has been changed. i dont say that dont believe on sunnat. sunnat is the explaination of quran but many of the hadtain are mde by the people so first go ffor quran. MEERI> hum na ya kab kaha ke rasool (SAW) ko follow nhai kartay hum. hum rasool hi ko to follow kartay hain aur ahlibait ko bhi kartay hain. humaray liya rasool kafi hain. kis na kaha nahi hain. magar jo shaks bhi naik ho us ki naiki ko follow karna chahiya. aur plzz meeri ahlibait jaisi azeem hasiton ke comparison ap peeron muridon sa na karo. ya peer kiya cheez hain. ahlibait ka matlab nahi jantay app.koi aam hanstiyan nahi janat ke sardar hain. ap jo apnay scolars ke pass jatay ho kayun jatay ho. kis liya. ap to apnay scholrs ko follow karo hum ahlibait ko follow na karein. hazrat yaqoob ki mourining ke baray main quran main likha hay. ap k obataya magar ap har bar pochtay ho ke kahan lkha hay mourning ke baray main. han jo loog kuch manana nahi chahtay wo kisi bhi surat nahi mantay. hazrat yaqoob ki binai chali gayi rorork e , wo paigambar thay to kiya unhon na galat kiya. han islam sa kharij nahi hota. magar ibadat sa to reh jata hay na. aur ap ko to koi nahi keh raha ke ap mourning karo. is ko karnay sa koi islam sa nikal bhi nahi jata. hum agar kartay hain to ap ko kis baat ki taqleef. ap ke pass kiya saboot hay ke sahi bukhari galat nahi ho sakti ke wo ulman na likhi thi, ya jo ap kehtay ho ke ulma na bataya hay to wo bhi galat ho saktay hain. ahlibait na ya nahi kaha ke rasool ko chor ker humari piarwi karo. so what do u say he was wrong. hazrat yaqoob did a wrong thing. he cried and he wa wrong. kisi paigamabar ko galat keh rahay ho. to bari kiya reh gaya app kedeen main. kon si books ke part paray thay. bas book hi book hay ya koi naam bhi hay. masla ya hay ke yazedi aj tak duniya main , aur hamesha imam hussain ko let down kartay rahain ga. mourning ko isi waja sa galat keh dia. aur ya bhi dursat baat hay ke jin logo ke ankhon per parday paray hain they wont ever b convinced wo ahlibait ko jhutlana ki koshish kartay rahain ga. moon sa naziba kalimat kon kehta hay. kiya ya baat naziba lagti hay ap ko ke hum chahtay hain ke hum imam hussain ke saath hotay. to lagti rahay nazaiba. in which ayah hazrat ilyas name is mentioned in yaseen? and the most important thing hum na ap ko nahi kaha ke imam hussain ke ghum mainro. magar ronay sa koi nonmuslim nahi ho jata. bulqay dard mehsoos karnay wala musalman kehlata hay. in choti choti baton ko lai kar na baitho. jis say humaray mazhab per koi farq nahi parta, humaray deen main koi kami nahi ati. to kayun is per behs hay. asal baat ya hay ke loogon main itni muhabbat nahi ke wo mourn kar sakain. un main itni himat nahi. is liya humain bura bhala kehtay hain. nahi kar saktay to na karo. u r not at gun point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 8, 2003 Beating and mourning by the wives of the Prophet (S) Curiously, not a single wife of the Prophet (S) ever heard of this ban (as claimed by Numani). On the contrary Hadhrath Aisha regarded by Ahl'ul Sunnah as the most knowledgeable women on Qur'an and Sunnah performed the following when the Prophet (S) left this earth: As narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawalla) Abbas narrates: "I heard Aisha saying "The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women". Need we say anymore? Would the wives of the Prophet (S) indulge in a haraam activity? According to Musnad of Imam Ahmad Hanbal Vol. 6, page 274; Aisha mourned the demise of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) with other women by beating her head Beating and mourning by Sayyida Fatima Zahra (as) Again the same book of 'Modaarejun Nubuwwat' Vol 2, page 163, the high ranking Sunni Scholar, Sheikh Abdul Haq Mohaddis Hanafi Dehlavi recorded that: "Fatima Zahra (a.s) hearing the rumour of the martyrdom of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) at Uhud came out of her house running and beating her head". Does it not transpire from the above that beating of head during the act of mourning for a martyr is also allowed by the religion as Sayyeda (a.s) was well aware of the religious code and was also infallible according to aya tat-hir (33:33). In addition an action of any member of Ahl'ul bayt is a Sunnah for the Ithna Ashari Shia's, mourning is not bidah it is a Sunnah of Sayyida Fatima Zahra (as). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 8, 2003 Assalaam-o-alaikum to all those who r reading my post :) ! hello fati, how r u? hope u r still fine... even after reading our discussions. lol.... my dear sis, i think u didnt get a few things what i meant. let me clear up ur little bit confusions. u know what? i dont care yazeed is going to #### or heavens. i'm also not 100% sure abt that but it seems that he might b one of the jannatis. but abt ahlebait, it is 100% sure that they will directly go to heavens and would b among the leaders. those who reject ahle bait, i call them Kafirs. i guess u also think it the same way. First of all, let me tell u, i'm not ahle sunna, i am - u can say - ahlehadith. actually, ahle hadith is not a new jama'at. they r those which was found by Prophet Muhammad SAW. sahabas were also called ahlehadith. even ghos-e-aazam said once that the one who call ahlehadith wrong is gumrah. well, if u would like to find out abt ahlehadith, plz refer to their books and u will understand who they r much well than my telling. I also believe that ahadith gharee gaee hain aur gaee theen. it doesnt mean k hum sab hadeethon ko chore dain. jo mustanad ahadith hain, kum az kum un ko to maanain. siha sitta main bhee kuch zaeef aur mozoo hadithain hain laikin un k baaray main saath he bata bhee dya gya hay k is k rawee main shak hay ya is k aik rawee jhoota hay. do u know the meaning of siha sitta? if yes, then plz do tell me... if we will go for Quran, Quran also says in many places "atee-ullaha wa atee-urrasool" and at some places it is also written "wa ulul amri" which means ordar walay i.e. leaders aur ameer. if there was going to b such problem that ahadith hum tak saree shak main he pohonchnee theen to phir koi aisa hukum bhee zaroor dya gya hota k siraf Quran ko thaamay rakho. humaisha Quran aur Sunnat donon par chalnay ka hukum dya gya hay. ab yeh hum par hay k hum us main say saheeh chantain... samajh rahee hain na mairee baat??? Quran main Allah nay kaha hay k aik seenay main do dil naheen ho saktay. isy tarah aik waqt main do kee ita'at kaisay ho saktee hay? haan tub automatically ho saktee hay agar donon kee baat aik ho. laikin ahlebait bhee to hazoor SAW ko follow kartay thay. to phir un ko kyoon follow kartay hain baishak woh Hazoor SAW ko he follow kartay thay. Quran main bhee yehee kaha hay k Allah aur us k rasool ko follow karo. kya harj kya hay siraf hazoor SAW ko follow karnay ka? is main koi shak naheen k ahlebait bohot paaya kee hastee thay. bohot he baray log thay. un k muqam par to koi naheen pohonch sakta. laikin hazoor SAW to pooree dunya main behtereen shakhsiat thay. akaila un ko kyoon naheen maantay? is tarah to Allah ka muqam aur hay k woh Khuda hay aur us k farishton kaa bhee muqam aur hay laikin un ko khuda to naheen maantay ya un kee pairwee to naheen kartay haalaan k woh Allah k sab say farman bardar makhlooq hain. yeh koi baat naheen huee k jo naik hay us ko follow kya jaay. jo sab say ziada naik ho, siraf usee ko follow kya jaay to behter hay bulkay haq hay... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 8, 2003 mairaa maqsad bilkul yeh naheen tha k main ahlebait aur peeron mureedon ko compare karoon. is tarah to phir main bhee keh sakta hoon k aap plz hazoor SAW aur ahlebait ka comparison na karain... aap ko kis nay kaha k main apnay scholars ko follow karta hoon. jo baat woh ghalat kehtay hain main usay rad karta hoon. jaisay abhee aik scholar nay kaha k jihad saheeh naheen. main un ko bilkul ghalat maanta hoon. aur jin scholars k paas main jaata hoon woh yehee kehtay hain k Allah aur us k rasool SAW k siwa kisee ko na mano.... agar Quran aur hadith main koi baat na mil sakay to phir ahlebait ya sahabye rasool RA ko consult karo. ab bataain kya woh ghalat kehtay hain??? aur kya yeh baat maanna scholars ko manna hua? woh to kehtay hain k agar humaree koi baat ghalat hay to bhee usay follow na karain. har Imam yehee kehta aaya hay. Astaghfirullah!!! mairee pyaree behen fati, main nay kab kaha k Hazrat Yaqoob AS kee mourning Quran main kahan likha hay? main manta hoon k woh bohot roay thay k un kee beenaee chalee gaee thee. Hazrat Nuh AS k naam ka matlab hee yehee hay k bohot ziada ronay wala. rona Islam main bilkul mana naheen hay. aur na'oozubillah, main kaisay keh sakta hoon hazrat yaqoob AS ko ghalat? woh to paighambar thay aur paighambar maasoom hota hay aur har khata say paak hota hay. laikin kuch baatain aisee hain jo Islam say pehlay jaaiz theen magar ab naheen. jaisay Hazrat Dawood aur Hazrat Sulaiman baadshah thay laikin Hazoor SAW nay baadshahat ko haram kaha hay. ab aap ka is baray main kya khyal hay? waiting for ur reply...... aap kaisay saabit karsaktee hain k rona aik ibadat hay? Eid k saath 10 Muharram kee comparison say related aik aur baat zehen main aee. Eid k din Shaitan roza rakhta hay aur 10 Muharram ko Hazoor SAW nay talqeen kee hay k roza rakha karo. yeh aik hadith main naheen baishumar hadithon main milta hay. baat koi patay kee ho to mana jaay. agar rona ibadat hotee to hazoor SAW sahaba ko bhee kehtay k khoob roya karo kyoon k yeh bohot baree ibadat hay. ulta zor zor say ronay say bhee mana kya hay. kuch log bohot he ziada sensitive hotay hain k un say bardasht naheen hota is lyay ooncha ooncha rotay hain chahay jitna bhee control karain. aisay case main Allah maaf karnay wala hay. Allah to sab ko maaf karnay wala hay magar aisay case main koi baat naheen. woh jaan boojh kar to naheen ro raha. woh aik fitratan amal hay. magar khaas tor par har saal aik hee moqa par jo k siraf sunee sunaee baat hay k is din fot huay thay, ko rona mairay khyal say durust naheen. ulta is ko ibadat kaa naam daina fair naheen. agar main nay kabhee kaha bhee hay na k ulma nay bataya hay woh tab hee refer karta hoon jab woh bhee koi maaqool aur saheeh reference dain. lol.... fati, haan! book he book hay :D i think i've already said b4 that as soon as i'll get the name of the book i will tell u. i got the name b4 but i forgot. it is Imam Khumainee's written book. however, u didnt tell me if Imam sahab was Wali-ullah or Aayatullah then why did his funeral fall? yeh koi chotee baat thoree. jahan tak yazeed ka taalluq hay, woh to qubar hay aur zaroori naheen k qabar humaisha hee taro taza rahay. anyway, forget abt yazeed, i dont care who he was. but what abt Khumenee sahab? woh to allah kee nishani kehlaay jaatay thay. saaree dunya k samnay nishani he ban gaay. aur Allah zaalim naheen k woh apnay bundon par zulm karay. aur janaza girna koi maamoolee baat bhee naheen. u can try to consult the actual video of his funeral. u may find it there as well....... is tarah to phir qaadyanee bhee theek hain k jin k nabee toilet main gir kar mar gaay thay phir bhee woh Allah kaa nabee maantay hain. bahar haal, maira hargiz kisee ko chairdnay k maqsad say point out karna hargiz matlab naheen. aap log mujhay achay lagtay ho. main chahta hoon k hum sab ko saheeh raah pata lagay. and i guess aap log bhee yehee chahtay ho gay. "ahlibait na ya nahi kaha ke rasool ko chor ker humari piarwi karo." yes, u r right, they didnt say that but we say... jahaan tak yazedi kee baat hay, well... i'm not one of them and i dont ever wish to b. bahar haal, jahaan tak maira khyal hay, in my opinion Hazrat Hussain RA ko let down karnay wala goya Hazoor SAW ko down karraha hay. kyoon k Hadith-e-pak hay k Hussain mujh say hay aur main Hussain say... i wont call the one who tries to down the rutba of Imam Hussain RA, Muslim and i have mentioned the reason too. However, there r some more reasons like he was from ahlebait etc... baat bilkul saheeh hay aap kee k jis kee aankhon par parda dal jaay to usay koi naheen dikha sakta. Quran main likha hay sura Anfal main k "Woh kehtay hain k hum nay suna magar haqeeqat main woh naheen suntay...... aur agar hum un main sima'at paatay to hum zaroor daydaytay laikin agar (bina salahyat k) sima'at daytay to woh zaroor phir jaatay." there r much more examples of such kind but BTW, for whom did u use those words? me? :D about ahadith, aap ko kis nay kaha k muawya nay hadithain gharee hain? un ko to Hazoor SAW nay makateeb-e-wahee chuna tha. kya hazoor SAW ko pata na tha k woh naoozubillah aisay hain? is tarah to phir jo unhon nay Quran likha tha, woh bhee phir hum tak ghalat he aaya ho ga. kisee ko bilawaja bura bhala naheen kehna chahyay aur na hee kisi par ilzam lagana chahyay. yeh bhee bus sunee sunaee baatain hain. aap siha sitta par to yaqeen naheen kartay, ulma kee baaton par to aisay ittafaq karlaitay ho..... khud sochyay. kya aisa naheen? ameer muawya sahaby-e-rasool thay. aik naik parhaizgar shakhs thay. Hazoor SAW k baad khalifa bhee banay thay. kya us waqt sahabee ghalat selection kya kartay thay? aur haan! us waqt Shiaon ka fasaad bohot urooj par tha aur Hazrat Hassan RA ko khalifa banaya jaa raha tha ya banaya jaa chuka tha. to Hazrat Muawya RA nay un say kaha k aap mujhay yeh zimadaree sompain, aap in Shia Hazrat ko naheen nimat sakain gay. to unhon nay apnee jaga Hazrat Muawya ko bana dya. ab jab Hazrat Hussain RA yazeed k haath par baaith naheen laysaktay thay to idhar unhon nay un ko khalifa kyoon bannay dya? kya woh atal naheen ho saktay thay? this topic needs a lot of thinking.... so think!!! Hazrat Hussain ko jhutlanay kee baat hay to main nay na kabhee jhutlaya, na jhutla raha hoon aur na jhutlaaoon ga. bhai jhutlaya to usay jata hay jo baatil ho. ooper say ahlebait ko jhutlana??? i dont think this is ever possible.... for me atleast.... behen!!! mujh say kyoon itna naraz hotee ho? main nay kya kardya? kyoon mujh par aisee khatarnaak baat lagarahee hain aap? and even if u think so, so plz apnay zehen say yeh baat nikal dain k main un ka dushman hoon. main siwaay kaafron aur Satan k kisee ko apna dushman naheen kehta. ooohhhhhhh! nazaiba kalimat main nay is par naheen kaha tha. general baat kee thee k jo aksar log gham k moqa par Allah say ajeeb ajeeb gila-o-shikwa kartay hain. Allah say naraz hotay hain. e.g. "Ay Allah! Ay too kee kitta! laija fir sab kuch.... kuch wee na chaddeen. to tay bus dukh hee mannoon puchaanda'ay" samajh rahee hain na mairee baat? naoozubillah, maira hargiz yeh matlab naheen tha. woh to main bhee kehta hoon k "Yaa Allah! main tujhay , tairay paighambaron ko, ahlebait ko aur tumam sahaba ko chahta hoon..... to bhee mujhay pasand farma. AMEEN!" aur jahaan tak un k saath honay kee baat hay, main to kehta hoon saaray he un k saath hotay aur un kee madad farmatay. why limitize? kaash! Hazoor SAW k saath bhee hotay, khulfa-e-rashdeen k saath bhee aur ahlebait k saath bhee.... dear fati, aap konsee ilyas kee baat karrahee hain? hum jo Ilyas k baaray main baat karrahay thay woh sura Saaffaat main hay aayat number 130. sura yaseen main to naheen. aur agar sura yaseen main hota to main 100% maannay ko tayyar ho jata k woh Alyaseen hay kyoon k sura ka naam he Yaseen hay :D Oh sis! sorry to say but the reference u gave is not satisfying. u have just quoted some non-reliable references. when Prophet Muhammad SAW died, never heard Hazrat Ayesha doing such a thing against the teachings of Holy Prophet SAW. now dont u think that the hadith u quoted from the books with no further references could b false? saheeh Bukhari kee hadithain jo baqaida rawayton k saath hay, woh ghalat hay par jo Muhaddis Shah Dehlvi jin kee kitabon k baray main bara suna hay k ghair Islami aur nonreliable things likhee hain, un kaa reference dya. sorry to say but plz give me some really acceptable reference. yeh to siraf inhe kee kitabon main milay gee aisee cheezain. theek hay, un kee baat ko to siraf Sunni hazrat he maantay hain par jin kee baat ko saree dunya maantee hay un ko reject?! chalain agar hum un kee baat maan bhee lain k agar saheeh bhee hua to jo baat hadith say takratee hay chahay woh Umer ho ya Abu Bakar, baat nabee kee chalay gee. hum Iman nabee par laay hain, jis ka matlab hay k hum hur cheez par nabee kee baat ko foqyat dain gay. aur agar koi aisee baat huee bhee ho gee to woh siraf ronay tak he mehdood ho gee. itnee jaleel-ul-qadar sahabya aisee maarnay peetnay walee harkatain naheen karsakteen. aur agar Hazrat Fatima nay kya bhee ho ga rumour sunnay par to yeh ihkam rumour k baad he naazil huay thay aur Hazoor SAW nay aisa karnay say mana farmaya tha. I dont understand, i said that u can cry if u have any martyr but u should control urself not to exceed the limits. the thing which i dont understand is that kya aisee baat hay jo aap ko siraf he siraf Hazrat Hussain RA kee wafat par rulatee hay. theek hay unhon nay itnee baree qurbanee dee the to woh kya aap k lyay thee ya Islam k lyay? Islam k lyay to bohot say logon nay bohot he baree baree qurbanyan deen. hatta k Hazoor SAW nay dunya kee sab say ziada Islam and even humaray lyay qurbanyan deen. aur haal yeh hay k Hazoor SAW kee wafat k din ronay kee bajaay khushyaan manatay hain. Haay! Afsos! kya ho gya musalmanon ko. itnee bay rahrawee!!! waiting for ur reply...... Enough for ur disturbance :P Allah Hafiz!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 8, 2003 walaikum salam. kiya hal chal hain. theak thak. meeri ji ap ki typing speed ki a hay. jo itna kuch likh daitay hain. kisi cheez sa impress ho na ho is sa zaroor hon. well main kal reply karon gi. coz i m in a hurry now. tc ALLAH HAFIZ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 9, 2003 lol..... fati ji, mairee typing speed bohot ziada bhee naheen hay. thinking speed ziada hay :D anywayz, my typing speed is 50 wpm . what abt urs? and yes, where is my shani bhai? plz tell him to come? is he bz nowadays? convey my compliments and regards to him too :;): ok! thanx for ur nice impression :D c ya! Bye! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cute_ooky 0 Posted June 9, 2003 K u know what..... To Fati: I have never heard anything like that before and I m sorry I can't really comment on that. But I am not sure if what u sed is true... I mean may I ask u where'd u get this info. frum?? Waiting for ur answer. P.S (plus) sorry Sameer... yar ur post is a lil' too long and running out of time. Inshallah aaj second mai parh loongi and I will reply to ur pm too! ooky :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 9, 2003 ooky, ohhhh its so nice to see u with some new wordings :P and BTW, abt my post(s), only a lil??? :D oh my God! ooky r u a human or what? u said that u will read my post in a second 2day......?! wow! hope u will...... and can u tell me what is ur reading speed? :P BTW, u didnt tell us abt ur concepts or beliefs... like to share? plz give us some time for it...... will b waiting for ur reply. Ok every! C ya! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 10, 2003 Hello! any1 here??? strange! i can here nothing but my own echo....... where r u fati and shani? plz dont leave me alone in this topic ooky, i've been waiting for ur reply patiently but i can see nothing new yet....... and oh my god!!! u r having exams and r gonna b absent for TWO WEEKS? oh no! how can i spend all that time without u? plz, if u ever get a chance to come on cy, plz do..... for me plzzzz......pretty plzzzz........ THANX! :D waiting for every1s reply! Allah Hafiz! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 11, 2003 i m here. ooky which stuff. any particular sentence u r talking about. let me know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 11, 2003 salamz Meeeri , fati and ooky.. wel..thx evrybudy for mssing me.. :) actually my pracs and tests re going on and thtz why i get very less time therefore i wud be able only to comment and read lil commentz..so plz meeri for me comment with lil dimensions one by one..and i wud reply.. abhi bas yahi kahoonga. kay bohat si misunderstandins hain...abt imam khumeni..itz a big rumer tht his funeral was fallen from helicopter..i think u dont know how the concepts as well as pictures r changed to defeat the real Muslims.. also..abt yazeed ..he can never be jannati..jus i can bet...! more comments after short posts and short replies.. wud be back soon C ya.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 11, 2003 salamz Meeeri , fati and ooky.. wel..thx evrybudy for mssing me.. :) actually my pracs and tests re going on and thtz why i get very less time therefore i wud be able only to comment and read lil commentz..so plz meeri for me comment with lil dimensions one by one..and i wud reply.. abhi bas yahi kahoonga. kay bohat si misunderstandins hain...abt imam khumeni..itz a big rumer tht his funeral was fallen from helicopter..i think u dont know how the concepts as well as pictures r changed to defeat the real Muslims.. also..abt yazeed ..he can never be jannati..jus i can bet...! more comments after short posts and short replies.. wud be back soon C ya.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fati 0 Posted June 11, 2003 i m composing answer meeri. it wud be long. u have to wait.. :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeri 0 Posted June 15, 2003 Hey, where did my post go??? i thought i posted it b4...... anyway, thanx for ur replies....... shani> i'll try my best to post short replies........ well, abt imam khumainee's funeral, i already told b4 that i had a lil bit misunderstanding as didnt hear it properly...... my parents saw Live video of his funeral on TV and his funeral fell while taking it to the helicopter not from the helicopter... janazay ka gir jana koi chotee baat naheen aur jaisa k fati nay kaha tha yazeed kee qabar to bohot hee ajeeb see jaga par hay. well...... to her response, qabar zaroori naheen k humaisha hee taro taza rahay yaa chamaktee damaktee rahay. laikin jab janaza k lyay mayyat jaa raha ho, us ka girna aur baat hay....... un ko to kehtay he thay "aayatullah" yaanee Allah kee nishanee. ab pata naheen konsee nishanay thay.... Allah maaf karay! u can consult the actual videos of his funeral if there is, and u can find it in that video (if they didnt remove that part :P ) fati, i'm still waiting for ur composition...... :) hope it couldnt b that long than my ones :D A.H.! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamshani 0 Posted June 15, 2003 Salamz.. wel..meeri...bro thx for considering my request..( or watever u thought it was..:) ) wel..i wud comment on this after u wud make me available by mail or watever tht video of Imam Khumeni.. and abt yazeed..wel..do u still think tht yazeed might be janati ??.. jus tell me..wud u prefer to believe on Quranic verses or Sahabi's riwayat or hadith ??.. obv. Quran's saying..and Quran says.. " One who kills an innocent person , he kills the humanity." and can the murderer of humanity ever be in jannat ?????? if still u think hez jannati..then itz strange..!!!! newayz.. thx for short comments and carry on..:) C ya.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
