Is Shia Kaafir?

[a1b2c3 0]

And i request to the Owner of The CooLYar Community that close this topic...

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Now you donot have somethign to say and want to close. This is not right. I will request Pl DO NOT CLOSE this topic.

[Ya_Ali_Mola 0]

Bhole ne wala Bhoot Kuch Bhool kar jata hai. Qk main abhi 15 saal ka hoon. Mujhe abhi is k bare ain ziada elm nahi hai.Chalo Main app ko Ek aur misal Batata Hoon.Hamare 12 Imam aur Hazrat Abu Baker , Umer , aur kon haan Usman. Kabhi tum ne kante wale Clock Dekhi hai. Us main kitne kante hota hai. Us main 3 kante hote hai who Hazrat Abu Baker , Usman aur umer.Aur hamare 12 Imam.Aur yeh 3 Caliph Bahar Nikalne ki koshish karahe hai.Yeeh Phaas gaya hain.Waqai Clock Banane wale ne bhi achi misaal chor kar gaye.

Aur Ek Aur Baat ke Kabhi Matam , Nohey Kabhi nahi rokey gain.

Tum log Mit Jao ge per humari koum ta Kayamat tak nahi roke gi.

[ariba 0]

App waqiee bohut chotty hoo jo itni ghatiya misal dhoond k lay hoo.Zahir hai koe Quraan ya hadith see prove jo nahin mila.aur yeh aisa moumla hai k iss main appki meri kahi hui baat moutabir nahi hoogi.

Tameez aur shasitagi k daeray main reh kar logical baat karo.aur agar main app k kisi imam ko inn see tashbeeh day doon tou kaisa lage ga apko?lakin main aisa karoon gi nahin bulk mujhay afsoos hoo raha hai app ne b apne imamoom ko aik ghatiya see ghari see tashbeeh day kar unki shan main ghustakhi kar di.lol.

Baqi matim aur noha karne wale k baray main kafi ahadith moujoud hain app jari rakhoo gay tou unn sab waeedon k mostahiq hoo gay.like noha karne wale per Allah ki lanat hai.aur yeh b faramaya hazoor(SALLAH HU ALEHEH WASSLUM) ne k woh hum main see nahin jo apna gereban phary apne gaal pete aur onchi awaz main roe.yeh dono ahadith hain agar inn k hawaly b chayein tou main apko day doongi.Aub b jari rakho gay noha???

Aindah aisi waisi koe tashbeeh kisi sahabee k bary main lay kar mat ana warna bohut bura hooga.ok??

[a1b2c3 0]

Ariba:

I think Mr. Abbas does not have anything from Quran/Hadeeth or history to prove his non-sence ideas no he started giving us even more non-sense examples.

Abbas stop this non-sense and try to learn the right.

[Aaman_Eman 0]

Its a pity that you can't have a normal discussion and just write rubbish... its an indication of ignorance

[Ya_Ali_Mola 0]

Chalo yeh batou kisi Hadith / Quran main 102400 ke Nabioun ke Naam hai.

Dekho kitne bomb Blast hoe per hum Matam , Noha aur Juloos ko kabhi nahi Roke ge

Aee Yaziddon kuch bhi karlo. Hum Darne wale main se nahi.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Ya_Ali_Mola

[MuhammadAmjadIqbal 0]

Aua Wr Wb

Allah hi hamaray haal par rehem farmaey.

[ariba 0]

Ariba:

I think Mr. Abbas does not have anything from Quran/Hadeeth or history to prove his non-sence ideas no he started giving us even more non-sense examples.

Abbas stop this non-sense and try to learn the right.

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Yes Right!!

Althought everyone has freedom of expression but it does never mean that u degrade or insult any of Sahabi(R.A) or anyone.

Discusion shuld b reasonable n withing the limits of respect.

[ariba 0]

Its a pity that you can't have a normal discussion and just write rubbish... its an indication of ignorance

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Right!!

All false belief r just bcoz of ignorance n nothing else.Agar hum ajj b Quraan ko insaaf see parh lein seikh lein tou rasta seedha aur saaf hai.

Main behas aur mubhisay k bohut khilaf hoon.kiunk behas baray behas main hum sraf samne waly ko necha dikhana chahty hain aur ana k mary kisi sahe baat ko b zid main nahin manty.

khiar Allah hidayat day sab ko(Ameen)

[ariba 0]

Chalo yeh batou kisi Hadith / Quran main  102400 ke Nabioun ke Naam hai.

Dekho kitne bomb Blast hoe per hum Matam , Noha aur Juloos ko kabhi nahi Roke ge

Aee Yaziddon kuch bhi karlo. Hum Darne wale main se nahi.

178232[/snapback]

Ohhoo App yeh tou bataoo k apko kaise pata chala k Allah ne aik lakh chobes hazar Anbiya ikram ko iss duniya ki hidayat k liye baigha??

Hazoor(Sa Allah hu Aleheh wasallum) ki zindgi main kaiee Sahaba(R.A) shaheed huay,apka baita apk samne wafat pa gaya.Apki 3 baitiyan apki zindgi main rukhsat hoo gaien iss duniya see.App ne inn main see kisi ka matum ya noha kiya??kisi k soog ka aise hukam diya jaise tum karty hoo?

Iss ka jawab nahin hi hai iss liye jo tum kar rahy hoo wo ghalat hai.Sunnat ko chor rahy hoo app.sabar aur uss k taqazon k khayal karin

Bobm tou iss dunya main blast hoty hi rehty hain.koe new baat nahin.

Waqaiee app darne waloon main see nahin.jis ko khoof-e-khuda hi nahin.Nabi(SAW) ki narazgi ki parwah hi nahin,akhrat k din ka dar hi nahin wo aise hi hoty hain jaise k app!!

[Aaman_Eman 0]

The Prophet Sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said: Speak the truth even if its bitter.

Ariba aap ka reply mashAllah buht buht accha hai.. yaqeeni tor pai es sai buht saray log buht kuch sochnay pai majboor ho jein gai .. Ariba main yahaan kuch addition ker rahi hon ...

Ali pehlay main nai socha thaa k aap kai reply kai baad yahan kuch be na likhoon ..lakin phir socha tou yeh k aap abhi buht chotay ho ..es age main aggressive hona natural hai .. lakin at least etna ahsas aap ko zaror rakhna chahyee k u r talking about religion ...or es topic pai baat sirf josh sai nahi hosh sai ke jati hai ..

aap socho k aap nai yeh kaha hai k Quran pak main 1024000 Anbiya ikram kai naam kion nahi hain ..tou es main be zaror Allah ki koi maslaihat ho gi ..lakin aap nai es tarah ki baat keh kay saf lafzoon main islam ka mazaq urraya hai ..kiya aap musalman nahi ho???

daikho buht saray liberal or kam ilm musalmanoo ki tarah mujay be es baat pai aitraz thaa k .. shiaa be aik muslim firqa hai ..es liyee en ko kafirr kehna sahi nahi hai lakin phir kiya howa...

main nai khood apni aankhoon sai shiaa family ko "Zuljinah" ( u know what i am saying) ko sajda kertay daikha .. chaloo aap nahi kertay ho tou ... mujay sirf yeh batao k aap log Zuljinah ko etni respect daitay ho kiya koi animal es qabil hai ?? es tarah shiaa main or kesi hindu main kiya faraq reh gaya??

aap nai kaha k Noha zaroor parah jay ga... Hadees Mubarak kai reference sai tou Ariba aap ko reply dai chuki hain or mashAllah buht nice reply hai

theek hai aap yeh sab mannay ko tayaar nahi ho .. tou at least utnay pai tou yaqeen rakho na k jiss sai aap aik musalman kehla sako.

or rehi baat Hazrat Abu Baker , Hazrat Umer ,HAzrat Usman R.A kee tou aap logoon kai kehnay sai on ke shaan main zara barabar farq nahi aay ga .. bal k aap ke zid main on ka ahtraam or barhay ga ..aap khood ko sahi sabat kerna chahtay ho ..sacha sabat kerna chahtay ho..never .. You Shias will keep dreaming of this day and it will NEVER come.U have been waiting for centuries and keep waiting till Qiyamat.

[rukh 25]

Ali > jub app is bat ko mantay ho app ko zyada ilm nahi to phir app ko chaeye kay pehlay app apnay ilm main azafa kerain or phir koi bat kahain

Aur Ek Aur Baat ke Kabhi Matam , Nohey Kabhi nahi rokey gain.

Tum log Mit Jao ge per humari koum ta Kayamat tak nahi roke gi.

jee haan app nay bilkul drust kaha .. kion k Yazeed woh insan hay jis nay sub say pehlay matam kia tha or usee nay bad dua dee the kay qaymat tuk shia hazrat matam kertay rahain gay yane bad dua kay tor per

rahe bat gharee ki misaal ki to agar gharee main Kantay na hoon to app kay yeh 12 ghantay kisi kam kay nahi In kantoon ki wajha say yeh Ghnatay ahum bantay hain . or jo log gherioon say kantoon ko nikal dain woh WAqt say nawaqif rehtay hain ..or jahlat main rehtay hain yehe misal Shia ki hay

baqee ab is terah ki fazool misalon say perhaiz kerain .or daleel kay sath bat kerain is topic ka masdad haqaiq ko samnay lana hay na kay behas kerna

Ariba & Amman iman & ibadat & a1b2c3 jazak Allah

[ariba 0]

Amman>Superb reply!!Jazak Allah

Rukh>Nice to C u!!

[Awaara 0]

LOLZ @ COPY PASTING

THE REFENCES U HAVE PASTED ABOVE ARE FROM KR-HCY.COM (SIPAA SAHABA WEBSITE)

AN INTERESTING FACT, THE GROUP HAS BEEN BANNED BECAUSE IT WAS FOUND INVOLVED IN MANY TERROR ACTIVITIES ... LIKE

- KILLING HUNDREDS OF INNOCENT MUSLIMS (SHIAS, BARELVIS, AHLE HADITHS)

- ITS LEADER MULLAH HAQ NAWAZ JHANGVI WAS HANGED TO DEATH BY THE PAKISTANI GOVERNEMT IN DECEMBER 19, 1990 ON CHARGES OF KILLING OF

* SUNNI TEHREEK'S LEADER MOULANA SALEEM QADRI

* AN IRANIAN DIPLOMAT ( IN LAHORE )

IF THERE IS A LAW STUDENT HERE, HE CAN CHECK THE DOUCUMTATIONS OF THE HIGHT COURT

THE 50 REFENCES AS MR. ALEXANDER HAS PASTED AND OTHER ARE ALL FAKE, NONE OF THEM EVEN EXIST

^ ABOVE IS WELL RELEATED TO THE TOPIC

BECAUSE, ACCORDING TO SHAR'AI LAWS

- A LIAR'S TESTIFICATIONS CAN'T BE ACCEPTED...

RECORDED IN MANY BOOKS ... NO NEED TO QUOTE  :)

SECONDLY

THE FIRST REFENCE

http://www.kr-hcy.com/shia/kufr.shtml

1. "Bad'ah"; ALLAH tells a lie. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.)

THE TRUTH

NO SUCH NARRATION EXISTS!

I AM PRESENTING A SCAN PAGE OF PG. 148 OF AL SHAAFI (URDU TRANSLATION OF AL KAAFI)

http://www.geocities.com/acraft7/Kafi-by-kulyani.html

I AM CHALLANGING TO ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT SHI'AH AL'IMAMYA ISNA ASHARI CLAIMS "ALLAH TELLS A LIE" TO SHOW ME WHERE DOES IT EXIST ... IF YOU GUYS ARE SUCCESSFULL I WILL LEAVE SHI'AISM; IT'S AN OPEN CHALLANGE...

SHI'AHS BOOK OF AHADEES .... ARE KNOWN AS

SAHIH BUKHARI

ASOOL-E-KAAFI

MANH LA YAHZIRUL FAQEEH

AL ASTABSAAR

TEHZEEB-UL-EHKAAM

CLEAR???.....OKAY

SHI'AHS ACTUAL BELIEF ON TAWHEED ... I QUOTE

Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks.

The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and who mistook Him pointed at Him; and who pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and who admitted limitations for Him numbered Him.

Whoever said in what is He, held that He is contained; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence

AUTHENTIC SHI'AH SOURCES:

(1) Al-Harrani, Tuhaf, 57;

(2) al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, I, 140;

(3) al-Qadi al-Quda`i, Dustur, 153;

(4) al-Razi, Tafsir, II, 164;

(5) Ibn Talhah, Matalib;

(6) al-Zamakhshari, Rabi`, I, bab al-sama' wa al-kawakib;

(7) al-Wasiti, `Uyun, see al-Majlisi, Bihar, vol.77, 300, 423;

(8) al-Rawandi, Sharh, see Kashif al-Ghita', Madarik, 69;

(9) al-Tabarsi, al-'Ihtijaj, I, 150

(10) Nahajul Balagha, First Seremon

SO YOU SEE. SHI'AHS BELEIVE ALLAH AS ONE ... FREE FROM ALL BAD STUFF  :D

PLEASE REMOVE YOUR MISCONCEPTIONS....

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very nice :) Mola Salamat rakkhe"YA ALI MADAD"KEHNE WALO KO :)

[Awaara 0]

Bhole ne wala Bhoot Kuch Bhool kar jata hai. Qk main abhi 15 saal ka hoon. Mujhe abhi is k bare ain ziada elm nahi hai.Chalo Main app ko Ek aur misal Batata Hoon.Hamare 12 Imam aur Hazrat Abu Baker , Umer , aur kon haan Usman. Kabhi tum ne kante wale Clock Dekhi hai. Us main kitne kante hota hai. Us main 3 kante hote hai who Hazrat Abu Baker , Usman aur umer.Aur hamare 12 Imam.Aur yeh 3 Caliph Bahar Nikalne ki koshish karahe hai.Yeeh Phaas gaya hain.Waqai Clock Banane wale ne bhi achi misaal chor kar gaye.

Aur Ek Aur Baat ke Kabhi Matam , Nohey Kabhi nahi rokey gain.

Tum log Mit Jao ge per humari koum ta Kayamat tak nahi roke gi.

178030[/snapback]

VERY NICE MISAAL :D KEEP UP SHABASHH :D

[ariba 0]

Lolzzzz.yak na shud do shud.

Aray apko yeh clock wali misal itni pasad aii hai.

Look agar app history main jao na clock ki tou sab see pehly yeh idea gallieo ne diya tha bocuase he was intersted too much in pendulum on which the clock is based.

he was a non muslim.new and modern clock is also presented by non muslims.so THE IDEA OF 12 IMAMS AND THE INSULTING BEHAVIOUR FOR SAHABA(R.A) IS ALSO PRESENTED BY NON MUSLIMS N INJECTED IT INTO THE BODY OF MUSLIM SOCIETY TO WEAKEN IT.

Hope u get my point!!

[Abu_Hanzala 2]

Assalamoalikum......

nice discussion going on.......but i will request these shia members to stay in their limits when talking about other respectable members,,,,,come up with solid proofs not with defaming others........

or Sahaba Karaam ( RizwanULLAH Anhum) k baaray main agar ek bhi lafz bura kaha tou remember I m going to do very bad with all of u.....ye Last verbal warning hai aap Hazraat k liye ,,oos k baad jo kuch hoga wo main apnay Eemaan ki takmeel k liye laazmi samajhta hoon....Ummahaat-ul-Momineen humaray liye Maa sey berh ker darja rakhti hain or Doosray Ashaab-e-Karaam humaraay liye Baap sey bara darja rakhtay hain lihaza koi bhi wrong word apni zabaan per laanay ki himmat kerney sey pehley soch lein k Sahabaa Karaam k naam per cut merney waalay zindah hain,,or Taa Qiamat zindah rahain gey....ye mutt sochiyega k yahan forum per aa ker ,anonymous reh ker aap kuch bhi kehtey phirein tou we wont do anything,atleast i can find u out in hours,,,,,,or agar aap itnay he Bahadur hain tou kuch bhi ghalat post kerney k baad apnay baaray main khud he bata dein k kis jaga sey aap ka taluq hai!!,,,,,ya hum khud find ker lein gey.....or phir Allah behter jaanta hai k aap k saath kiya hoga......

coming up with some more proofs Against Shia religion......wait for my reply....

till then Da ALLAH PA AMAAN

Edited April 18, 2006 by Alexander

[jehan shah 0]

Alexander,

nam to tumhara musalmano wala lagta nahi.apne nam par ghaur

karo yeh jis ka nam tha us nay musalmanon ko kahin chain

laine nahi diya.so muje aap par shal hay.

aur haq kahan chupta hay.hum jo kuch kehte hain .wo hum nahi kehte

aap log kehte hain aap ki kitabain kehti hain.zara apni kitaboob ko to

ghaur se padha karo.

tum ko ik link deta hoon zara thanday dil se sun na is ko.aur yeh bhi dekhna

k kon keh raha hay.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9031181739160070561

aur marne k siwa kar bhi kia sakte ho.haq is tarah nahi chupaya ja

sakta.aankhian khol kar aur thanday dil se haqeeqat ko samjo.

[jehan shah 0]

is discussion main hissa nahi laina chahta.mere pass in sab ka

time nahi hay.bt kuch logon ka humara rone par itaraz hay.to us k liye

aap hi ki books se kuch hawala jaat hain jo yahan post karta hoon.

1:

The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) wept for his Uncle Hamza (R.A.).

The books Tabaqat Ibne Saad, Maghazi of Waqidi and Musnad Ahmed

Hanbal mention the following tradition:

After the Battle of Uhud, the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) passed by a

house of Ansars. He heard the wailing of the people for their martyred

family members. The eyes of the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) filled with

tears and he began to weep. Then he (S.A.W.) said: "But there is no one

to weep for Hamza." When the ladies of the family of Sa'ad bin Muadh and

Usayd bin Huzayr al-Ashhal returned they told them to go and weep for

Hamza, the uncle of the Prophet (S.A.W.). Then from that time to date

none of the women of Ansar have wept for their dead ones before weeping

upon Hamza (R.A.).

2: The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) wept for Jafar bin Abi Talib (R.A.).

A narration recorded in the books of Al-Istiab, Usud al-Ghaba, Al-Isabah

and Ibne Athir etc that: When Jafar was killed with his companions, the

Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) came to his house and summoned his children.

Then he consoled them up and there were tears in his eyes. Asma, the wife

of Jafar said: May my parents sacrificed for you, you are crying? Shall I tell

you about Jafar and his companions?

"Yes", he replied the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.), "I am very sorrowful

today."

Then Asma called and the women gathered, and Fatima (S.A.) entered

weeping and wailing, "O Uncle!".

The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) said: "A brave one like Jafar deserves to

be wept upon."

3: The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) wept for his mother at her grave.

Many books of traditions like Sahih Muslim, Musnad Ahmed Hanbal, Sunan

Abi Dawood, Sunan Nasai and Sunan Ibne Majah mentioned the following

tradition:

Abu Huraira says: "The Prophet (S.A.W.) visited the grave of his mother

and wept and made others weep too

4: The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) wept for his grandson, Hussain (A.S.) on

various occasions.

(i) Tradition of Ummul Fazl.

The first narration quoted by us is recorded in Mustadrakul Sahihayn,

History of Ibne Asakir and Maqtal of Khwarizmi, other books also mention

this incident.

Ummul Fazl the daughter of Harith came to the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.)

and said: "O Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.), I had a dream in which I saw that

a piece of your flesh flew off and fell into my lap. The Messenger of Allah

(S.A.W.) told her, "You have seen something good, by the will of Allah,

Fatima a.s will give birth to a child and you will be present in the house."

Later Fatima (S.A.) gave birth to Hussain (A.S.) and Ummul Fazl was

present, as the Prophet (S.A.W.) had predicted. She placed Hussain (A.S.)

in the lap of the Prophet (S.A.W.), She said:

"Thus when I saw the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) that his eyes were filled

with tears. I said, 'O Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.), may my parents be

sacrificed for you, why are you weeping?'.

He (S.A.W.) replied, 'Jibraeel came to me and informed me that my people

will soon murder this son of mine.'

I asked, 'This son?'

'Yes', he (S.A.W.) replied, 'And he gave me the red dust of his grave.'

Al-Hakim says, "This is an authentic hadith according to the standards of

Bukhari and Muslim, but they have not included it in their collections."

(ii) Tradition of Zainab Binte Jahash

A similar type of narration has been presented in the books: Tarikh Ibne

Asakir, Majmauz Zawaed, Tarikh Ibne Kathir etc:

Zainab says: One day while Hussain (A.S.) was in my house and near me at

the staircase, and then I became thoughtless. The Messenger of Allah

(S.A.W.) entered.... He (S.A.W.) said, "Let him be (as he is). The Prophet

(S.A.W.) stretched out his hands while he was performing the prayers and

took Hussain (A.S.) to him. I said, "O Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.), I have

never seen you do this before?"

He (S.A.W.) said, "Jibraeel came to me and informed me that this (Hussain)

will be killed by my Ummat." I requested him, "Then show me the dust of the

land, where he will be killed." And he gave me some red earth.

(iii) Tradition of Ayesha

Abi Salma has been recorded in Tarikh Ibne Asakir, Maqtal Khwarizmi and

Majmauz Zawaid to say:

Ayesha said: The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) had seated Hussain (A.S.)

upon his thigh when Jibraeel came and asked, "Is this your son?"

"Yes", he replied.

Jibraeel said, "But your Ummat will soon kill him after your demise."

The eyes of the Prophet filled with tears.

Jibraeel said, "Would you like to see the land where he shall be killed?"

"Yes", he replied.

Then Jibraeel showed him the fine dust of his grave.

In another narration there is a variation where Jibraeel is reported to have

indicated towards Iraq and took some red dust from it and showed it to him

and said, "This is the dust from his fatal battleground."

[jehan shah 0]

[B]iv) Tradition of Umm-e-Salma (R.A.)

Mustadrakul Sahihayn, Tabaqaat Ibne Saad, Tarikh Ibne Asakir and other

books have mentioned the following tradition from Umm-e-Salma (R.A.):

The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) was sleeping one night when he awoke

with a start. He was in a state of terror. Then again he went to sleep and

once more woke up with a start. This time he was more worried. Again he

went to sleep and woke up. In his hands was some red dust. He was turning

it around in his hands.

She said, "What is this dust, O Messenger of Allah?" He said, "Jibraeel

informed me that this Hussain a.s will be killed in the land of Iraq. I asked

Jibraeel to show me the dust of the land where he will be killed. And this is

that dust."

The Tradition of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) regarding prohibition of weeping.

Sahih Muslim and Sunan Nasai record the following traditions:

(i) Abdullah bin Umar reported that Hafsa wept for Umar (when he was

dying). He (Umar) said: Be quiet, my daughter. Don't you know that the

Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) had said: "The dead is punished because of his

family's weeping over it?"

(ii) Umar reported Allah's Apostle (S.A.W.) as saying: "The dead body is

punished in the grave because of wailing on it."

(iii) Ibne Umar reported: When Umar was wounded he fainted, and there was

a loud lamentation over him. When he regained consciousness he said: Didn't

you know that the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) said: "The dead is punished

because of the weeping of the living?"

The tradition of Umar and his son as explained by Ayesha

Let us consider the following incident, which finds mention in the books of

Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim:

Abdullah bin Abu Mulaika reports Ibne Abbas as saying: When we came to

Medina, it was before long that the Commander of believers was wounded,

and Suhaib came weeping and crying: 'Alas for the brother, alas for the

companion!' Upon this Umar said: Didn't you know, or didn't you hear, that

the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) said: "The dead is punished because of the

lamentation of his family?"

Abu Mulaika says that he went to Ayesha and told her of this. She said: I

swear by Allah that Allah's Messenger (S.A.W.) never said that dead would

be punished because of his family's lamenting (for him). What he said was

that Allah would increase the punishment of the unbeliever because of his

family's lamenting for him. Verily it is Allah who has caused laughter and

weeping. No bearer of a burden will bear another's burden."

Ibn Abu Mulaika said that al-Qasim bin Muhammad said that when the words

of Umar and Ibne Umar were conveyed to Ayesha, she said: "You have

narrated it to me from those who are neither liars nor those suspected of

lying but (sometimes) hearing misleads.

We can also mention a similar type of tradition, which has been recorded in

Sahih Muslim, Sahih Bukhari, Sunan Tirmizi and Muwatta of Malik.

Hisham bin Urwa relates from his father that he said: I heard Ayesha say,

when she was told that Abdullah bin Umar says that the dead person is

tormented by his family's weeping over him, that "Allah may bless Abu Abdur

Rehman that he heard something but could not retain it (well)." Actually,

the bier of a Jewish man passed by the Prophet (S.A.W.) and the member

of his family were wailing over him. Upon this he said: You wail and he is

being tormented.

The Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) told Umar not to prohibit weeping.

The books of Sunan Nasai, Sunan Ibne Majah and Musnad Ibne Hanbal

record the following narration:

Salma binte Azraq reports that Abu Huraira said: Someone of the family of

the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) died. The women gathered and began to

weep upon the death. Umar stood up and refrained them from weeping. The

Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) said: Do not stop them, Umar, because the

eyes weep and the heart is sorrowful and it has been only a short while

(since the calamity).

And in Musnad Ahmed Hanbal:

From Wahab bin kaysani, from Muhammad bin Umar that he informed him:

Salma Ibne Azrak was sitting with Abdullah Ibne Umar in the market place

when a bier passed and people were weeping on it. When Abdullah Ibne

Umar restrained them from weeping, Salma Ibne Azraq told him; do not say

that, because I have witnessed my father say that he heard from Abu

Huraira that a woman from the family of Marwan died and Marwan told his

women not to weep upon her. Abu Huraira told him not to restrain them as

he himself had witnessed the incident when the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.)

told Umar not to send away the women who were weeping upon the dead.

Moreover, the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) had said: "Call them back, son of

Khattab, for surely the soul is sorrowful and the eyes weep and it is a fresh

incident."

He said, "Did you not hear him say that?".

"Yes", he replied, "The Almighty and His Messenger are more knowledgeable."

Conclusion

In the first section of our tradition, we have proved beyond any doubt that

the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.) has time and again wept upon the death of

various people; martyrs as well as those who had died a natural death. He

has also wept near the grave of some people.

Similarly in the second section, we have shown that the Messenger of Allah

(S.A.W.) had shed tears for the imminent martyrdom of Imam Hussain (A.S.),

his beloved grandson. This also proves that weeping for Imam Hussain (A.S.)

is a meritorious act as proved in the previous section. In addition, we can

say that it is one of the Sunnat of the Prophet (S.A.W.).

The third section consists of narrations, which were wrongly understood by

the second caliph, Umar. We have also discussed how Ayesha, Abu Huraira

and Ibne Abbas have corrected him.

We can safely conclude that the traditions reported by the second caliph

and his son, as regards the prohibition of weeping, are faulty.

Doubtlessly, weeping due to the fear of death, weeping upon the dead and

upon their graves is from the practices of the Messenger of Allah (S.A.W.).

It is his Sunnat. One who weeps upon Imam Hussain (A.S.) has actually

followed the sunnat of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.).

is se sabit hota hay k rona haram hota to NABI PAK saww kion karte

kion k humara iman hay k jo QUR;AN hay wo NABI saww hay koi farq

nahi donon main.

aur jo mera sawal hay us ka jawab nahi.is liye main nay yeh behas chor di

hay k yeh humare karne ki behas nahi.aur Hazrat Ayoob a.s ka waqia main

aap se pehle bayan kar chuka hoon.

umeed hay k meri baat samaj aagayi hogi aap ko.

wasalam

iltemas duaa

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9031181739160070561[/b]

[sobe 12]

jehan ji yah sub jo app nay kaha durust hay i agree with u lakin kahin pay iss baat ka hukam nahin aya kay Rasul (SWA) kay janay baad tum log bhi rona ok aur ronay ki baat hay to APP (SAW) apni umaat par buhat royay kia app log ummat par rotay ho

yah to sirif kafron ka idea tha muslmano ko tornay ka masla sirif matam aur noha ka nahin kalima ka baghar janat main janay walay nahin hain hum sub right

kalima kay under app ghlati say koi zubbar zair parhanay may mistake kartay to woh maaf hay lakin agar app zubbar zair add ya nikaltay bhi ho kalimay kay meaning change hiojatay aur uss say buhat fark parta hay

phir jo khalifon ki problem batay abbas app nay to yah simple

Hazrat Umer kay baray may Rasul(SAW) nay kahay hay agar maray baad koi nabi hotay to umer hotay aur Hazrat Abu bakar kay baray main APP (SAW_ nay kaha hay koi insaan aisa nahin siway ABy bakar jin kay maray upar ahsanat hain jo qiyamat kay din ALLAH hi ahsanat ka badla dain gay

aur bhi main app ko iss kay baray main buhat kuch batoun ga ok

and for all the other ppl koi bhi kafir bhi usay bura bhla kahna nahin chahiyay kitna hi bura kion na hoo kion uss ka aur AllAH ka mamla appp log nahin janat shayad woh marnay say pahlay kalima par lah aur hum say bahtar humay pata bhi iss liyay kisi kop bura bahla kahna nahin chayiya

naram dil say baat kara karain sub log APP (SAW) nay bhi humasah naram dil say baat ki hay halankay logon un kay sith phir bhi kitna bura salook kiya tha

[Abu_Hanzala 2]

nam to tumhara musalmano wala lagta nahi.apne nam par ghaur

karo yeh jis ka nam tha us nay musalmanon ko kahin chain

laine nahi diya.so muje aap par shal hay.

Thats not my name..AlhamDOLILLAH i m a Muslim and my name is Muhammad Farhan...thats just a nick ,if u translate it in urdu, it means Sikandar..hope u get it!! Mera nick tumhari tarah k Shirkia nick rakh ker khulay aam apnay shirk ka izhaar nahi ker raha........

aur haq kahan chupta hay.hum jo kuch kehte hain .wo hum nahi kehte

aap log kehte hain aap ki kitabain kehti hain.zara apni kitaboob ko to

ghaur se padha karo.

shuroo se agar aap is topic ko perhein tou aap ko is sawaal ka jawaab bhi mill jaayega.....ek cheez add kerna chahoonga is main k Shia ne jhoot ka naam badal ker Taqiya rakh liya hai or unn k mazhab main ye Ibadat samjhi jaati hai...jab k Quran kehta hai " Jhoot bolnay sey bach k raho" (30:22)Humari kitaabon main tou kuch or likha hai or tumhari kitaabon main kuch or....aap ki kitaabon ki baatein Quran-o-Hadith sey he mutasaadim hain tou baaqi kitaabein tou aap side per he rakhain filhaal......giving u one example.....jaisay k Usool-e-Kaafi ne Imaam Jaafar ki jaanib ye Qol mansoob ker diya gaya k " ye ummat (NaoozubiLLAH) khinziron ki maanind hai or fermaya k ye laanati ummat kia cheez hai?"(Ussool-e-kaafi,,,337:2)

jab k Humaari kitab (QURAN MAJEEd) kehti hai k "tum log behtrin ummat ho jisey tamaam insaano k liye bheja gaya hai"(110:3)

is aayat-e-mubaraka main Allah JALLA SHANAHOO ne Tamam musalmaano ko mukhaatib kia hai , Nabi Akram SALALLAHO ALAHIYE WASALLAM ki ummat ko mukhaatib kia hai ...humaari Kitaab (QURAN MAJEEd) tou humain is deen ko saari dunya main aam kerney ka hukum deti hai..baar ha ye hukum aata hai k is deen ki tableegh kero ,Naiki ka hukam kero or buraayi sey mana kero,,,,SEE Quran ,,(125:16)(122:9)(104:3)jab k Ussool-e-Kaafi jo shia ki sab sey mustanad kitaab hai ek baar phir Imaam Jaafar ki jaanib ye qol mansoob kerti hai k " tum is Deen k Pairoo ho k jis ne is Deen ko chupaye rakkha Allah oosey moazziz banaye ga or jis ne ye deen zaahir kia ,Allah oosey zaleel kerey ga"( Usool-e-Kaafi....336:3)

ab zera bataaiye k contradiction hai k nahi?? or ye tou main ne sirf chand examples di hain moqay ki munaasibat sey is tarah k aap ne he ye baat kahi k huq chupta nahi.....tou phir aap Hazraat ko "Taqiya" kerney ki kia zaroorat paish aati hai?????magar sach ye hai k chor kabhi chori ker k ye nahi kehta k ye chori main ne ki hai!!!as i said earlier k Shia mazhab main apnay Aqaaid ko chupanay ka naam "Taqiya" hai ,jo k Shiaism ki ek aisi property hai jo dunya k kisi mazhab main nahi.............wait for the next reply

[Abu_Hanzala 2]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9031181739160070561

.

Give us Proofs from Quran and Ahaadith....in videos ki i think zarurat nahi parray gi......janaab humaari tou dil ki aankhein bhi khuli hui hain ,kitaabon ko ghor se perhh ker he hum ye baat ker rahay hain......

aur marne k siwa kar bhi kia sakte ho.haq is tarah nahi chupaya ja

sakta.aankhian khol kar aur thanday dil se haqeeqat ko samjo.

Marnay k ilawa Maar bhi saktay hain janaab lolz ..haq ko chupa nahi rahay isi liye tou yahan discuss ker rahay hain ap sey k aa ker apnay dil ki aankhein bhi kholein or dekhein k what actually the reality is......haq ko hum nahi aap hazrat chupaa rahay hain ghalat Dalaail dey ker....aap ne sab ko bewaqoof samjha hua hai??? magr ye baat bhi zehen main rakhiye k Islam phailta tou tableegh or amal sey hai magar is ko Defend Maar ker he kia jaataa hai....Jihaad Islam ki Dhaal hai.....Nabi Akram (SalALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM) ki taqreeban 27 Ghuzwaat main shirkat or banafs-e-nafees lerrna is baat ki gawaah hain

is discussion main hissa nahi laina chahta.mere pass in sab ka

time nahi hay.bt kuch logon ka humara rone par itaraz hay.to us k liye

aap hi ki books se kuch hawala jaat hain jo yahan post karta hoon.

Main Baar haa ye baat keh chuka hoon k Aap hazraat sey humara ikhtilaaf ronay per nahi,,or na he humara ikhtilaaf or aiteraaz Sahaba karaam per hai , na Taaziye per hai na Muta'a per hai ...humara ikhtilaaf or aiteraaz tou aap sey Aqaaid-e-Islam per hai .......lekin agar aap ronay ko he pakar ker beth gaye hain tou let see Nabi Akram (SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM) ronay per,noha kerney per ..maarnay peetnay per kia Fermaatay hain.....

"Nabi Akram (SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM) ne fermaya k wo humari ummat main se nahi jo munh per peetay ,kaprray phaaray ,or Jaahilyat k zamanay ki tarah waawela kerey"

(Muttafiq Alaihe)

jab k Shiaism main rona peetna ,maatam kerna bohot barri ibadat hai....

"ek or jaga per Nabi Akram SALALLAHO ALAIHE WASALLAM ne Laanat fermaayi Noha kerney waali or Noha sunnay waali orat per, or seena kobi,baal nochna, bain perrhna haraam qaraar diya "

(ABU DAAUD)

wait for the next reply in which i will reveal secrets of Shiaism i wont hide the truth inshaALLAh which will help to remove doubts from our minds........

Till then Da ALLAH PA AMAAN

[REEM 0]

SALAAM TO ALL

FRIENDZ WHY ARE U ALL FIGHTING?

WE VISIT THE FORUM TO SHARE SOMETHING NICE WITH EVERYONE.

NOT TO FIGHT!

AGAR HUM LOG HI AAPAS MEIN LADENGE TOH PHIR TOH DOOSRE MAZHAB KE LOGON KO MOQHA MILLEGA KHUSH HONE KA!!AND WE ARE MUSLIMS FIRST AND ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT UNITY.

PLEASE STOP FIGHTING.

AND I REQUEST THE FORUMS ADMINISTRATOR TO CLOSE THIS TOPIC.

[Abu_Hanzala 2]

SALAAM TO ALL

FRIENDZ WHY ARE U ALL FIGHTING?

WE VISIT THE FORUM TO SHARE SOMETHING NICE WITH EVERYONE.

NOT TO FIGHT!

AGAR HUM LOG HI AAPAS MEIN LADENGE TOH PHIR TOH DOOSRE MAZHAB KE LOGON KO MOQHA MILLEGA KHUSH HONE KA!!AND WE ARE MUSLIMS FIRST AND ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT UNITY.

PLEASE STOP FIGHTING.

AND I REQUEST THE FORUMS ADMINISTRATOR TO CLOSE THIS TOPIC.

walikumossalam....

we r not fighting brother, u can see that we r defending Islam by giving proofs thats all......

doosrey Religions sey lerrney k liye pehley apnay Islam main sey Kaali bhairon ka nikaalna zaruri hai.....uss k baad he musalman sahi tor per united ho saktay hain........

as being the Topic starter i would like to continue this topic .....Islam k khilaaf agar koi kuch bhi kehta phirray tou kia hum chup ho ker beth jaayein????

jab tak kisi nateejay per na pohonch jaayein ,,,I will defend ...if others donot wish to come and reply....i will fight alone ......

Edited April 20, 2006 by Alexander